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Thread: Authentic Faction Names

  1. #61
    Magister Militum Flavius Aetius's Avatar δούξ θρᾳκήσιου
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    Default Re: Authentic Faction Names

    Some quick notes:

    It's not "Imperium Romanum Occidentale/Orientale" it should be "Imperium Romanum pars Occidentis/Orientis"

    Hunnu - This should actually be Huna, based on 4th century Chinese and Iranian sources

    Sabiroi - This word is actually Oghur Turkish (Hunnic) with a Greek ending tacked onto it, from Priscus. I don't think we know what the plural is, although it might already be in its plural. You could try and see if there's a parallel with a modern Turkish dialect in the ending, but I don't know how Turkish declines its nouns. The Chuvash are allegedly remotely descended from the Sabir Huns but I don't know if the word Sabir exists in Chuvash (a quick look at their dictionary doesn't list it).

    If you can't find anything, could always just go with Sabir Huna.

    Ostrogoths/Visigoths - Technically neither of these names were used until the late 5th century, the Visigoths didn't take up the term Vesigetae until after 455 or so, and the Ostrogoths didn't even form until the 480's, out of the old Amal Goths. So it might be best to do "Vesi" and "Amali".


    For the various Eastern factions, you should check out this map, all the names are in Middle Persian (what the Sassanids Spoke):

    http://iranpoliticsclub.net/maps/ima...0600%20Map.jpg

    E.g. the Afrighids are Xvarazm (Chorasmia in Latin, Khwarezm today). Persia is Pars, Sughdia is Gilan, Parthia is Part, Sugd is Sogdia, Marg is Margiana, etc. etc.

    The Greuthungi should be the Tetraxite Goths (Tetraxitae) who lived in the Crimea until the 7th century AD.
    Last edited by Magister Militum Flavius Aetius; March 21, 2015 at 06:28 PM.

  2. #62
    The Iron Chancellor's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Authentic Faction Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Augustusng View Post
    Do the names work when you disable your other mods? If you're not sure which mod might conflict with it, try disabling them one at a time. Of course, by using PFM you should be able to see if any of the other mods modify text files. Are you sure that the other mods you're using don't change any faction names? It could be that since my faction name tables are fragments, they're not properly overwriting the changes another mod makes (this shouldn't really be the case, but I guess it's possible). I made them fragments so that they'd work immediately if a patch or DLC added more faction names (generally separatist factions).
    I appreciate the response, Augustusng.

    After testing with various mods disabled and then removed from the data folder altogether, nothing seems to resolve the issue. I'm not sure what it could be! I may get Steam to verify the game files now that all other mods are removed; perhaps it'll help?

  3. #63

    Default Re: Authentic Faction Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Magister Militum Flavius Aetius View Post
    Some quick notes:

    It's not "Imperium Romanum Occidentale/Orientale" it should be "Imperium Romanum pars Occidentis/Orientis"

    Hunnu - This should actually be Huna, based on 4th century Chinese and Iranian sources

    Sabiroi - This word is actually Oghur Turkish (Hunnic) with a Greek ending tacked onto it, from Priscus. I don't think we know what the plural is, although it might already be in its plural. You could try and see if there's a parallel with a modern Turkish dialect in the ending, but I don't know how Turkish declines its nouns. The Chuvash are allegedly remotely descended from the Sabir Huns but I don't know if the word Sabir exists in Chuvash (a quick look at their dictionary doesn't list it).

    If you can't find anything, could always just go with Sabir Huna.

    Ostrogoths/Visigoths - Technically neither of these names were used until the late 5th century, the Visigoths didn't take up the term Vesigetae until after 455 or so, and the Ostrogoths didn't even form until the 480's, out of the old Amal Goths. So it might be best to do "Vesi" and "Amali".


    For the various Eastern factions, you should check out this map, all the names are in Middle Persian (what the Sassanids Spoke):

    http://iranpoliticsclub.net/maps/ima...0600%20Map.jpg

    E.g. the Afrighids are Xvarazm (Chorasmia in Latin, Khwarezm today). Persia is Pars, Sughdia is Gilan, Parthia is Part, Sugd is Sogdia, Marg is Margiana, etc. etc.

    The Greuthungi should be the Tetraxite Goths (Tetraxitae) who lived in the Crimea until the 7th century AD.
    Right on the Roman stuff. I didn't want to write it that way and add an extra word to an already very long name, but I suppose I could if it was actually written like that.

    Hunnu - I could make that change, but using Chinese or Iranian sources seems just like using Latin sources for them. I mean sure, I don't think a written Hunnic language exists, but the modern Mongolian word is very similar to the Latin word and seems to fit. Of course, that's assuming the theory linking the Huns to Mongolians is correct, but the game already does assume this in the way they're portrayed.

    Sabiroi - Yes, this word is Greek and already plural. I'm hesitant to add "Huna" to their name, as it might be worth distinguishing them from the Huns. If the Oghur Turkish word "Sabir" by itself is already plural, I could just use that, but of course it isn't certain.

    Visigoths/Ostrogoths - Yeah, I'm okay with just making the Visigoths "Vesi," but doesn't Claudian mention the Ostrogoths circa 392? Also, Amali refers to the ruling family of which some members later became Visigoths, doesn't it? For now I've kept the "Goth" ending simply to make it clear that these factions are related, even though "Vesigetae" is a later term.

    Eastern factions - Do you have a higher resolution version of that map by any chance? Then again, I can see most of the important ones here, and I've already changed the relevant faction names to similar ones. The Afrighids might be worth changing to Xvarazm, since I've already made them Chorasmia in the Latin version, and I might change the Ghassanids though to match the Lakhmids - I'll have to ask Brivime about the spelling though.

    Greuthungi - Yes, but again I'm hesitant to make this change, since the Greuthungi in the game control a larger territory than just Crimea (the area immediately to the North as well). They're meant to represent the Goths who remained north of the Black Sea as a tributary state of the Huns. Does Tetraxitae fit better for that group then?

    Also, if you have links to your sources (or book titles/authors), I would appreciate it.

  4. #64

    Default Re: Authentic Faction Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Augustusng View Post
    If you mean for the Latin version, those are almost done. I just need to decide if I want to use "Praefectura," "Provincia," or something similar for the Roman emergents. Since most of them never really existed, it's difficult to decide.

    If you mean the endonym version, that's much more difficult. For most of them, I have absolutely no idea which words to use, and of course it's hard enough finding the names for the factions in some of the languages, let alone what to call their separatist/rebel versions.

    I'll probably release an update for both versions with those Latin changes (of course in the endonym version only for appropriate factions) when the new DLC/patch arrives.
    I was thinking about the endonym version. I've been trying to think of something to give you some help, but I'm struggling. Maybe a list of all the factions you haven't done yet so people can give some suggestions could help, or at least help me remember them.

  5. #65
    Magister Militum Flavius Aetius's Avatar δούξ θρᾳκήσιου
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    Default Re: Authentic Faction Names

    Right on the Roman stuff. I didn't want to write it that way and add an extra word to an already very long name, but I suppose I could if it was actually written like that.
    I actually don't know if it was written like that. I used to write Imperium Romanum Occidentalis/Orientalis but my Latin Professor, Dr. Tipton, taught me that was wrong and that the correct way is pars Occidentis/Orientis due to the Grammar. I speak Latin and pars Occidentis/Orientis is grammatically correct.

    Hunnu - I could make that change, but using Chinese or Iranian sources seems just like using Latin sources for them. I mean sure, I don't think a written Hunnic language exists, but the modern Mongolian word is very similar to the Latin word and seems to fit. Of course, that's assuming the theory linking the Huns to Mongolians is correct, but the game already does assume this in the way they're portrayed.
    Mongolian split off from Turkish some time around the 5th or 4th century BC, I think. Not sure on the date. The Xianbei Confederation were the first Proto-Mongols, and were the arch-nemesis of the Xiongnu (pronounced Hunnu), who were predominately Altaic with a Yenisei core. The Xiongnu retreated into the Altai mountains after they were defeated, and later absorbed the Dingling in the 3rd Century AD, when they emerged as the Huna, speaking Oghur Turkic now rather than the Xiongnu dialect (which was an Altai-Yenisei dialect probably) althugh obviously the Xiongnu Dialect influenced the Hunnic one. The Huna was what the Huns called themselves, and the word Huna is simply a transliteration of how they pronounced it into the Iranian and Chinese languages.

    As for the Sabirs, they were Huns, just one of the 12 Hunnic groups (which CA neglects to distinguish, hell they even put the Huns in the wrong place. I can assure you they were not in Belarus at any point in their history...).

    Kim's the Huns, Rome, and the Birth of Europe covers the Hunnic history quite well, as well as the Etymology of the name "Huna", while for the naming of the Hunnic groups (Akatir, Onogur, Sabir, etc) I'd see the older but still useful work by Otto Maenchen-Helfen On the World of the Huns.

    Also, Amali refers to the ruling family of which some members later became Visigoths, doesn't it? For now I've kept the "Goth" ending simply to make it clear that these factions are related, even though "Vesigetae" is a later term.
    The ruling family of the Vesigetae were the Balti/Balthi Goths, while the Amali were the ruling family of the Ostrogoths that began with Valamir in the 440's.

    Claudian may make mention of an "Ostrogoths" but it's an isolated one and being used poetically. At that time there was no actual Ostrogothic group.

    Greuthungi - Yes, but again I'm hesitant to make this change, since the Greuthungi in the game control a larger territory than just Crimea (the area immediately to the North as well). They're meant to represent the Goths who remained north of the Black Sea as a tributary state of the Huns. Does Tetraxitae fit better for that group then?
    Well the fact of the matter is that there were about 8 Gothic groups, according to Peter Heather's The Goths. There were the Tervingi and Greuthungi, who became the Visigoths, the Goths of Radagasius, who also became part of the Visigoths, the Amali Goths under Valamir (in the 440's), the Carpathian Goths under Dengzich (in the 460's), a Group of Gothic Foederati in Thrace (who were moved to Thrace from Pannonia in 421), and two groups of Tetraxitae Goths in the Crimea. The Tetraxitae Goths actually never came under Hunnic domination, which we know from primary sources.
    Last edited by Magister Militum Flavius Aetius; March 21, 2015 at 10:15 PM.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Authentic Faction Names

    On the Romans - I also speak Latin, and both our versions are grammatically correct. I imagine your version is probably better then, since your Latin professor recommends that way. Your "Orientalis/Occidentalis" was wrong because "Imperium" is a neuter noun, and the adjective needs to agree with it - that's purely a grammatical thing. The difference is that "Imperium Romanum Orientale" literally translates to "Eastern Roman Empire" while "Imperium Romanum Pars Orientalis" is literally "Roman Empire, Region of the East." (Edited because genitive case, forgot earlier) I'll go with your version if it can fit in-game. Hopefully the text will shrink a little bit to accommodate it.

    I'll check those two books on the Huns then; they both seem interesting. Thanks for recommending them! As for Huns being in the wrong place, that map CA released with all the factions doesn't actually reflect the in-game location of the Huns. I'm not sure why they put them there on the map. I imagine that map was made before the startpos was finalized. The Huns actually start with three hordes, all (I think) within the "Sarmatia Europea" province.

    Since startpos changes are far beyond the scope of this mod, I can't change that the Greuthungi start as a Hunnic tributary state. That's for other mods to change if necessary; I'm only changing names here - but if the Tetraxitae were never under Hunnic domination, I probably shouldn't use that name instead of Greuthungi.
    Last edited by Augustusng; March 23, 2015 at 06:27 PM. Reason: genitive case :P

  7. #67

    Default Re: Authentic Faction Names

    Big update - check the OP for details. The Latin version now has Latin names for all rebel and separatist factions - a few of these are also in the endonym version.

    Oh, and as a compromise for the Goths, I've added their ruling families into the politics screen, instead of the faction names.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Authentic Faction Names

    Quote Originally Posted by Augustusng View Post
    Big update - check the OP for details. The Latin version now has Latin names for all rebel and separatist factions - a few of these are also in the endonym version.

    Oh, and as a compromise for the Goths, I've added their ruling families into the politics screen, instead of the faction names.
    Thank you for this update. This is your best iteration of this mod yet. I also see you got the graphical UI around the names of cities/factions back, at least for me they were missing before this update. A must have mod for Attila!

  9. #69

    Default Re: Authentic Faction Names

    Nice effort, very immersive mod.

  10. #70

    Default Re: Authentic Faction Names

    Butan mate, that avatar.

    Also great update Augustus Would rep if I could.



  11. #71

    Default Re: Authentic Faction Names

    Thanks for the support, guys! But Leving's brought a very odd issue to my attention... the Latin faction names mod isn't working properly. The game doesn't crash, but none of the new names show up. Very bizarre, as the endonym version is working correctly. I'll be combing through the pack and see if I can find the problem...

  12. #72

    Default Re: Authentic Faction Names

    Okay, the Latin version should be fixed now. Totally strange. I had to make the factions and faction_groups table fragments into full tables. For some reason the game wouldn't read them as fragments... even though it reads them fine in the endonym version.

  13. #73

    Default Re: Authentic Faction Names



    Update - One more fix to the Latin version, for the Nomadic faction group name. Thanks to NumNutsXIII for spotting the error.

  14. #74

    Default Re: Authentic Faction Names

    Good to know

  15. #75

    Default Re: Authentic Faction Names

    Just a small mini mod to add to this great mod from Augustus which changes the political and character titles in the game into Latin. The purpose of this mini mod is to add extra "immersion" for Roman players and people who like Latin in general by adding it to the political and military mechanics of the game.

    Some of the changes (not all of which are direct translations) are as follows:

    Roman Offices/Titles (Now Officium/Officii)
    - Emperor: Imperator
    - Governor: Praeses/Praesides
    - Master of Offices: Magister Officiorum
    - Commander in Chief: Magister Militum
    - Master of Horse: Magister Equitum
    - Master of Foot: Magister Peditum
    - Master of Soldiers: Comes Ordiniprimi (First Count)
    - Military Count: Comes

    Examples of Non Roman titles and Offices
    - King of Kings: Rex Regum
    - High King: Rex Maximus
    - Judge: Iudex
    - Master of the Guard: Magister Custodum

    UPDATE:

    Wife changed to Uxor.
    General changed to Dux (Duces).
    Governor changed to Praeses (praesides).
    Admiral changed to Admiralis (Admirales)
    Statesman changed to Administrator (Administratores).
    Retainer changed to Bucellarius (Bucellarii).
    Armies changed to Comitatus (Comitatus)
    Fleet changed to Classis (Classes).
    Garrison changed to Limitanei
    Heir changed to Heres.
    Son changed to Filius.
    Daughter changed to Filia.
    Family changed to Familia.
    Other nobles/patricians changed to Alii nobiles viri and Alii Patricii.
    Forces occasionally changed to copiae.

    Here is the DL link:

    http://www.mediafire.com/download/gk...e_rankv0.4.rar

    If anyone spots any mistakes or has any suggestions I would be grateful.

    Update Log:
    Last edited by Cope; March 27, 2015 at 09:16 PM.



  16. #76
    Antiokhos Euergetes's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Authentic Faction Names

    Nice addition, thanks

    EDIT: Is anyone, anywhere working on regions and city names? Just curious, I really cannot recall the names in game off hand, but there must be area needing attention
    Last edited by Antiokhos Euergetes; March 29, 2015 at 01:46 AM.

  17. #77

    Default Re: Authentic Faction Names

    Both versions are awesome been using them for a time now! Thank you! Also Leving, your mod for the offices also wonderful for the romans!

  18. #78
    Eldgrimr's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Authentic Faction Names

    I believe that it is actually I.R. Pars Occidentalis/Orientalis, not Occidentis/Orientis.

  19. #79

    Default Re: Authentic Faction Names

    Quote Originally Posted by ZombieZleeping View Post
    I believe that it is actually I.R. Pars Occidentalis/Orientalis, not Occidentis/Orientis.
    Sorry, this has already been discussed at length. I'm not going to change it again unless I get some really compelling evidence for it. Besides, it's already too long.

  20. #80
    Eldgrimr's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Authentic Faction Names

    If you for example google IR Pars Orientis/Occidentis, then you will find almost no result and you will be corrected, but if you google IR Pars Orientalis/Occidentalis, then you will find loads of results.

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