Saka Rauka Noble Horse Archers

**Velico** · February 17, 2015, 12:51 PM

Are these units supposed to be available so early to this faction? They have 70+ armor, 70+ charge, 60+ morale, high melee attack and defense, etc. I started a co-op campaign as Baktria with my buddy playing Saka Rauka, and he had these units available in about 10-15 turns. Their upkeep was something like 250 for him before he started speccing in upkeep reduction, but now he has a full army of them and we absolutely crushed 3 full armies in one turn with them. One unit went into half health with minimal casualties to everyone else.

Early foot archers stand no chance against these guys. Their armor is just too good, and no cavalry can challenge them even if they get in melee due to the amount of sheer numbers you can field. They really need to be moved further back in time for recruitment and probably have their upkeep increased to keep them balanced. Right now he just facerolls everything and then sieges settlements down. It's super easy mode.

EDIT: The armored noble horse archers, not the regular ones. They are pretty similar, but the armored were available to him early. I don't think he's fielded any of the regular noble horse archers, not sure if they're available to him or if he sees the armored ones as wholly superior.

**Zonac** · February 17, 2015, 02:02 PM

BUt you have to consider that these guys are the only good unit for a long time in the game.. try to siege something... thats pretty hard^^ had some fun with saka rauka with a head to head campaign

those units were the only reason i was able to survive!!! But yes you are right. In my opinnion they should be moved to lvl 3 stables were you have the resource restriction and the general armored horse archer should move down to stable 2 ( however I don't know if this unit should be there for historical reason/if you can recruit them in different way (I only know that they are the general unit^^).

However what bothers me are the "armored" foot archers of the steppe faction. they have 150 upkeep but ere worse then the unarmoed steppe foot archers considering shooting skills which only cost ~66

Maybe the armored version should also get at least a fire rate of 6 per shot instead of their current 3 which makes them the worst archer unit considering their price!

(and maybe that way we get a funny unit to siege something^^

)

**Velico** · February 17, 2015, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Zonac

BUt you have to consider that these guys are the only good unit for a long time in the game.. try to siege something... thats pretty hard^^ had some fun with saka rauka with a head to head campaign

those units were the only reason i was able to survive!!! But yes you are right. In my opinnion they should be moved to lvl 3 stables were you have the resource restriction and the general armored horse archer should move down to stable 2 ( however I don't know if this unit should be there for historical reason/if you can recruit them in different way (I only know that they are the general unit^^).

However what bothers me are the "armored" foot archers of the steppe faction. they have 150 upkeep but ere worse then the unarmoed steppe foot archers considering shooting skills which only cost ~66

Maybe the armored version should also get at least a fire rate of 6 per shot instead of their current 3 which makes them the worst archer unit considering their price!

(and maybe that way we get a funny unit to siege something^^

)

Yeah, basically his method is to crush everything in the field, and then siege the settlement down. I haven't played a nomad faction, so I don't know if they can spec into enemy hold out reduction, but even if another army comes to relieve the siege he engages them with the garrison (who almost always sallies out) and crushes them with minimal casualties. Once the garrison's gone he just marches in. It's been really effective for him. I'll try to encourage him to post his thoughts on here, he'll be able to identify the strengths and weaknesses better than I.

He doesn't have any foot archers, I'm not sure if he doesn't have access to them or just doesn't want them, but his main army is literally a full stack of armored noble horse archers. If he does assault a settlement (the minor ones), he'll just dismount about 5 units of the horse archers and have them fight on foot with the rest giving support.

**ItsAnAmbush** · February 17, 2015, 05:01 PM

Said buddy here. Horse archers are working as intended nothing to see here, move along. The only weakness I've discovered was heavy shock cavalry. I have yet to siege a city with decent walls but I can imagine it will be pretty rough. More info at a later date.

**antred** · February 17, 2015, 05:14 PM

I also find it questionable that horse archers outrange most foot archers now.

**KAM 2150** · February 17, 2015, 05:23 PM

To be honest, horse archers outranged foor archers due to move momentum during fireing, but for gameplay purpose, horse archers have lower range then foot archers

Anyway, those stuff are already redone for next patch. In regular DeI foot archers slaughter horse archers.

**antred** · February 17, 2015, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by KAM 2150

To be honest, horse archers outranged foor archers due to move momentum during fireing, but for gameplay purpose, horse archers have lower range then foot archers

Anyway, those stuff are already redone for next patch. In regular DeI foot archers slaughter horse archers.

Hmm, I could have sworn I recently saw a stack of horse archers wander about on the northern coast of the black sea, and all their mounted archers had a range of something like 160, whereas my foot archers only had 135.
Also, didn't horse archers actually have less range than foot archers due to having to use smaller, more compact bows?

**Augustusng** · February 17, 2015, 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by antred

Hmm, I could have sworn I recently saw a stack of horse archers wander about on the northern coast of the black sea, and all their mounted archers had a range of something like 160, whereas my foot archers only had 135.
Also, didn't horse archers actually have less range than foot archers due to having to use smaller, more compact bows?

I think most horse archer units in DeI have 150 range. Many foot archers, especially the lower-quality ones, have shorter ranges than that (like 135), but better foot archers tend to have a range of 165 or 170 in DeI (ofc this might change with Kam's ranged overhaul).

**Velico** · February 17, 2015, 08:41 PM

Originally Posted by KAM 2150

To be honest, horse archers outranged foor archers due to move momentum during fireing, but for gameplay purpose, horse archers have lower range then foot archers

Anyway, those stuff are already redone for next patch. In regular DeI foot archers slaughter horse archers.

Cool! I'm guessing the specific changes will be in the next patch notes?

**KAM 2150** · February 17, 2015, 06:23 PM

Eastern bows were mostly stronger then western bows, hence size did not matter. That is why reach of longbow is mostly overglorified (although still impressive). Of course my example of larger range of horse archers only works in case of riding forward. Anyway, on regular DeI and current experimental battles, units had mostly messed up weapon entries, not it is fixed. Also for gampleplay purpose, even the best horse archers will have lower range then best foot archers.