CA needs to start doing open betas yesterday

**Riekopo** · February 10, 2015, 12:46 AM

It really boggles my mind that CA hasn't started doing betas for their games. After the absolute debacle that was Rome 2 (and let's not forget Empire either) I was sure that they would do an open beta for Attila. However, I guess the suits still don't think they're worthwhile. The Total War series needs betas more than any other game series I can think of. They're vast and complex and continuously launch in a terrible state. CA is really behind the times in this regard. More open game development is the trend and even corporate "worst company in America" giants like EA are doing open betas. So many problems could be avoided if they did open betas and the feedback they would get would better shape their games to their fans' likings.

**damien007** · February 10, 2015, 02:08 AM

Attila has a beta, it's called the preview build. An open beta is different.

**Aenima** · February 10, 2015, 07:22 AM

Originally Posted by damien007

An open beta is different.

And is what this entire thread is about.

**damien007** · February 10, 2015, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by Aenima

And is what this entire thread is about.

Except all his points refer to why the game needs a beta. He doesn't explain why it should be an open beta.

**Aenima** · February 10, 2015, 08:42 AM

Originally Posted by damien007

Except all his points refer to why the game needs a beta. He doesn't explain why it should be an open beta.

Except

Originally Posted by blackberryalpha

After the absolute debacle that was Rome 2 (and let's not forget Empire either) I was sure that they would do an open beta for Attila...They're vast and complex and continuously launch in a terrible state...So many problems could be avoided if they did open betas and the feedback they would get would better shape their games to their fans' likings.

If there was an open beta for Attila, or even just a demo, there's a chance I'd pay full price for this game. As it is, I'm more than content to wait until Steam slashes the price in the Summer sale, or even later if needs be. I'm pretty sure there are many others who are in the same boat.

**T-Duke** · February 10, 2015, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by damien007

Attila has a beta, it's called Rome II.

Fixed.

**RGA** · February 10, 2015, 02:15 AM

Napoleon and Shogun 2 both didn't have open beta and they were still very good games, even at release. While I agree that beta phase should be prolonged, open beta has many drawbacks of its own (the risk of code being broken, additional cost, good feedback being inudated among countless non-constructive whining etc.) and thus the decision for open beta should be considered carefully.

**Humble Warrior** · February 10, 2015, 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by RGA

Napoleon and Shogun 2 both didn't have open beta and they were still very good games, even at release. While I agree that beta phase should be prolonged, open beta has many drawbacks of its own (the risk of code being broken, additional cost, good feedback being inudated among countless non-constructive whining etc.) and thus the decision for open beta should be considered carefully.

Any decent Dev House that expects to make a great game will know that it needs to endure

being inudated among countless non-constructive whining etc

to find out what it`s doing bad as well as good. If they are so thin-skinned that all the gates must be kept locked until release then that`s just the route to fail.

Funny how the guys making Hardline manage to deal with it and I`m sure they get their fair share of whining that they have to filter through. Pity, I was considering getting that game after the Beta, but Origin and the ridiculously high price for the Standard version puts me off, but i digress.

Also, even though CA wrongly leans on the `pity` routine from their abject fans to look as if they can`t handle it, they can and a lot.

**SPARTAN VI** · February 10, 2015, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Humble Warrior

Any decent Dev House that expects to make a great game will know that it needs to endure to find out what it`s doing bad as well as good. If they are so thin-skinned that all the gates must be kept locked until release then that`s just the route to fail.

Funny how the guys making Hardline manage to deal with it and I`m sure they get their fair share of whining that they have to filter through. Pity, I was considering getting that game after the Beta, but Origin and the ridiculously high price for the Standard version puts me off, but i digress.

Also, even though CA wrongly leans on the `pity` routine from their abject fans to look as if they can`t handle it, they can and a lot.

Chopping his quote in half changes its context. He's saying that the good feedback is hidden among countless useless feedback (e.g. needle in the haystack). I'd bet most people don't understand how to beta test, and those who do get their feedback buried by those who don't. It creates noise and generates overhead. Not that it can't be done, it just requires more resources (e.g. manpower and technology) to sort through the junk. It's not about thin-skinned devs getting their feelings hurt by whining beta testers.

**Butan** · February 10, 2015, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by SPARTAN VI

Chopping his quote in half changes its context. He's saying that the good feedback is hidden among countless useless feedback (e.g. needle in the haystack). I'd bet most people don't understand how to beta test, and those who do get their feedback buried by those who don't. It creates noise and generates overhead. Not that it can't be done, it just requires more resources (e.g. manpower and technology) to sort through the junk. It's not about thin-skinned devs getting their feelings hurt by whining beta testers.

Public testing has always been, always is, always will be like that.
How games have open betas and profit from it? Because they employ people to find the needles in the haystack. Bingo.

**SPARTAN VI** · February 10, 2015, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Butan

Public testing has always been, always is, always will be like that.
How games have open betas and profit from it? Because they employ people to find the needles in the haystack. Bingo.

Right. I said it's possible with enough manpower/tech. I don't know why they're not offering an open beta, but I'd bet being "thin-skinned," as HW asserted, and afraid of negative feedback is NOT why we don't have an open beta:

Any decent Dev House that expects to make a great game will know that it needs to endure to find out what it`s doing bad as well as good. If they are so thin-skinned that all the gates must be kept locked until release then that`s just the route to fail.

**Butan** · February 10, 2015, 07:42 AM

As for extensive modding tools, creating the structure for an open beta would be too cost intensive and would undermine other sectors like AI development.

As such it has been decided that the players will be given the opportunity to test our game using the final version only, for the modest sum of 40$. Dont forget to pre-order for day 1 DLC!

**Abdülmecid I** · February 10, 2015, 08:09 AM

Umm, he mentions "open betas" thrice in his OP and the thread is titled "CA needs to start doing open betas yesterday". Also, I'm not 100%, but iirc Shogun II did have an open beta. Perhaps, I'm wrong though...

**kerrfox** · February 10, 2015, 09:28 AM

I agree they should have some kind of beta testing. It would only make the game better and less buggy at release.

**priam11** · February 10, 2015, 09:51 AM

Well since this is being released in a week, that ship has sailed.

Cannot remember if they had open betas for any previous titles but then again my memory sucks.

**Humble Warrior** · February 10, 2015, 09:55 AM

Originally Posted by priam11

Cannot remember if they had open betas for any previous titles but then again my memory sucks.

There has never been. But there has been a demo when CA has felt confident enough about their game- That was the Australian branch though, now gone.

**LestaT** · February 10, 2015, 05:01 PM

Originally Posted by Humble Warrior

There has never been. But there has been a demo when CA has felt confident enough about their game- That was the Australian branch though, now gone.

Fall of the Samurai did have an open beta, at least for the MP part. Only Rome II (and now probably Attila) did not have a demo. Even Napoleon did have a demo which was released after the actual game is out, maybe due to low sales.

**Huberto** · February 10, 2015, 10:50 AM

They did a semi-open beta of battles for FotS. One of CA's best games for sure.

**Bethencourt** · February 10, 2015, 11:25 AM

They already make great betas when they release the games. The thing is that they do not say it so. Now in steam it is called "game with anticipated access" so you pay for it but it is not finished.