Is it worth recruiting the Egyptian Units for Ptolemaioi?

[Findiglay]

I like the different style some of the Egyptian units have in this game, it lends a flavour to the faction. However, the standard Macedonian/Greek equivalent for each unit offers better stats for just a little more upkeep & cost - e.g. early game Egyptian Swordsmen vs Greek Swordsmen.

Is there any point in recruiting these Egyptian units or are they just present to make the point that native Egyptian units serving in the Ptolemaic armies were inferior to their Greek counterparts?

[Wolster]

I like the different style some of the Egyptian units have in this game, it lends a flavour to the faction. However, the standard Macedonian/Greek equivalent for each unit offers better stats for just a little more upkeep & cost - e.g. early game Egyptian Swordsmen vs Greek Swordsmen.

Is there any point in recruiting these Egyptian units or are they just present to make the point that native Egyptian units serving in the Ptolemaic armies were inferior to their Greek counterparts?

I love the style of them, & have run my (otherwise very easy Egyptian campaign - since the faction is totally safe in a corner, has very weak local african enemies, has a massive economy, tech advantage,wonders, Iron resource, & can easily trade with every faction it fancies) battles only using them to provide a challenge.

In such a manner it makes the easiest faction in the game, something worth playing.

So yes its worth recruiting them, other wise this faction offers nothing of interest to the game, apart from easy mode training of noobs.

[Eire_Wombat]

Upkeep in DEI is pretty substantial, so if you would like to have many decent armies compared to a few elite armies you should use the levy/local units. I do this with most of my Hellenic armies, keeping a couple elite units, and using the professional or levy/local units to balance the ratio of battle effectiveness and upkeep cost. That way I can field multiple armies that are all effective but not unstoppable. Or you can pour all your money, hopes, and dreams into one or two armies with the best you can buy and hope they don't get destroyed/outmaneuvered. Lol

So yes its worth recruiting them, other wise this faction offers nothing of interest to the game, apart from easy mode training of noobs.

Funny you should say that as Egypt was the first faction I played through.

[Sanatyr]

I think they are deceptively good.

Machimoi slingers have the most armor of any slinger in the game by a fair margin.
Machimoi Phalangitai are significantly better than other levy pikemen.
Machimoi Swordsmen are a javelin-armed 300 man unit as opposed to 200 with no javelins.
Machimoi Akontistai; they are far better than other basic Greek akontistai, more like light peltasts armor-wise.

[Findiglay]

I think they are deceptively good.
Machimoi Swordsmen are a javelin-armed 300 man unit as opposed to 200 with no javelins.

I did not realise this, thanks for pointing it out.

So yes its worth recruiting them, other wise this faction offers nothing of interest to the game, apart from easy mode training of noobs.

FYI, I am playing in a head to head campaign against Seleucids, so how easy mode this will be depends on the skill of my opponent. I can assume though that he will be fielding his best possible armies against me.

[Cambion]

I think they are deceptively good.

Machimoi slingers have the most armor of any slinger in the game by a fair margin.
Machimoi Phalangitai are significantly better than other levy pikemen.
Machimoi Swordsmen are a javelin-armed 300 man unit as opposed to 200 with no javelins.
Machimoi Akontistai; they are far better than other basic Greek akontistai, more like light peltasts armor-wise.

Well, there are not as bad as they look but still inferior to the greeks. The reason its worth to recruit them is roleplaying. Making realistic armies is fun in itself, but also that weak spot in the line can make battles far more interresting than just recruiting elites, which of course is no problem with Egypt.

[HarkonRules]

Sure, but the Seleucids are far from only having Ptolemy to worry about, with rebellious satrapies and other threats all around, while your own neighbours are far easier to handle.

[Sanatyr]

Ha, well, your opponent has 50 turns to crank out pure hoplite stacks and grind you to dust. Outside of mercenaries, Egypt doesn't have access to real hoplites until reforms.

[Findiglay]

Ha, well, your opponent has 50 turns to crank out pure hoplite stacks and grind you to dust. Outside of mercenaries, Egypt doesn't have access to real hoplites until reforms.

True, but won't a pike wall trump a hoplite one?

[Sanatyr]

Under perfect conditions, maybe, but pikemen have less armor, health, morale, maneuverability and are far more difficult to handle in general. Any flanking maneuver is going to be far more devastating to pikemen, whereas hoplites can be completely surrounded and fight on for a long time. I think hoplites really are my worst nightmare sometimes...

[KAM 2150]

Frontally pikes will crush hoplites, although it will take them some time.

[RollingWave]

Seriously though, if your having trouble winning with Egypt ..............................

[Irishmafia2020]

I use the Egyptian units to make a "cannon fodder" stack that is cheap to recruit and maintain... they lead the invasion and weaken my enemies stacks before my Macedonians come in for the kill! After a couple of campaigns the Egyptians are experienced enough to be a really cheap and effective fighting force in their own right...

[Findiglay]

A little further investigation by myself,

Machimoi Swordsmen are indeed 300 units as opposed to 200, and having javelins makes a difference. They are also a lot more mobile and have better stamina than their Greek counterparts, and would make a great flanking force for the first 50 turns... they are also cheaper, but in custom battles can take the Greek unit 1v1 due to javelins, better stamina & outflanking with greater numbers.

Machimoi Pikemen are a lot better than standard levies which I usually don't bother using in my armies. Compared to the Phalangitai, they are about 1/3 cheaper to recruit and for upkeep, they have better stamina (which can be very useful in a prolonged phalanx engagement or if you want to run your phalanx to position) and they have the 'Resistant to Heat' attribute which might just give the upper hand in desert battles. On average, they can hold the line pretty well against Phalangitai but will suffer greater losses. Nevertheless, at a third cheaper, you could field nine of these for the same price of fielding six units of Phalagitai. Lower armour does make them more vulnerable to missle units, but they are not as cannon fodder as the levies.

To answer my question, overall these two units actually seem to have really good bang for the buck as well as some nice Egyptian flava. i.e. they seem to be indeed well balanced and useful. I'll probably recruit them in large numbers for the first 50 turns, allowing me to field an extra stack or two.

[KAM 2150]

Yes, that was the sole reason to employ Machimoi in Ptolemic armies, they needed to have more phalangitai then Seleucids and it paid off

[geala]

In my 0.96 campaigns as the Ptolemaioi I usually changed directly from the Machimoi Phalangitai to the Phalangitai Basilikoi and skipped the normal pikemen.

[Maetharin]

as soon as Mitch´s Populous mod is released, you´ll be forced to use these Machimoi soldiers, as you won´t want to waste your macedonian/greek population and hold them back for crucial battles ^^

[Jin-]

Yes. I use them on Africa and Arabia etc...
Egyptian soldiers have heat resist trait. They may be bit weaker, but they last longer.

Also Egyptian Thorax swordsmen are almost similar anyway

[0N3]

Does AI Egypt become Egyptian culture, and not Hellenic? That happened in my campaign.

[meerkatology]

egyptian archers are awesome, 170 range with like 50 upkeep