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  1. #1

    Default [WIP] Mordor Improvement Project

    What the heart is this?

    This is a collection of personal tweaks designed to make the Mordor campaign in MoS 1.6.2 more fun for the player. Among planned features is a unit roster balance overhaul, modification of scripts, especially toning down some of their overpowered and cheap features, as well as possibly incorporation of new units and buildings. At the point the project exists in demonstration only stage, meaning that I will submit some basic data files for other players to test out and give their feedback upon. At the end of the road I would like to see Mordor campaign as well thought out and varied as Gondor. I also hope that my edits would at least in part, make it into future tentative MoS updates.

    At the present, the Mordor roster is rather monotonous, battles are decided chiefly by numbers, which tends to the employ of rather tedious and questionable tactics. The idea is to give them various types of infantry suited to specialized roles, to make their battlefield tactics centered on flexible infantry maneuvering, Cannae style envelopment, ambushes and terrain selection, thus enabling them to prevail over superior foes with skillfully managed inferior units.

    General Changes:

    All orcs have increased speed and formation spacing. Uruk units are slower, better disciplined, have more mass and are closely spaced. The cost and upkeep for most orc units has been increased to reduce AI stack spam, and to make it more challenging to maintain large orc armies. Here's a list of planned balance changes:

    Tier 1 Units:


    Orc Warband:

    Quintessential orc unit with board shield and crude melee weapon. Can swarm and fodder. Easily routed by a cavalry charge. While its stats are awful, its next to zero upkeep make it ideal for keeping order in settlements and raid weak cities in the enemy's rear.

    Orc Raiders:

    Mordor's foot "cavalry". Small in size (about 120-150) they are fast (move_speed_modifier = 1.2), good charge and very_hardy. Quite a bit faster and dangerous than warband. To be used for outflanking, chasing and as a reserve.

    Orc Archers:


    I want to give Scouts and Archers a slightly different role. Scouts are fast and nimble, whereas Archers come in bigger sizes and are a bit tougher and expendable.

    Tier 2 units:


    Orc Halberdiers:

    The bread and butter of the early orc army. More disciplined than Warband, but vulnerable to shock and arrows. Spear wall grants them an advantage from the front.

    Scouts:

    Now a kind of special forces infiltrator, Mordor's answer to Rangers. Size lowered and cost increased, but they become very_hardy and movespeedmod (MSM) = 1.3. Used to flank behind an enemy line and shoot him in the back. Can hide anywhere.

    2h Orcs:


    Increase their charge bonus, move speed and cost to better suit their role of outflank and surround.

    Tier 3 Units:

    Having all-uruk stacks will ruin your treasury, so whenever possible, substitute with lower tier orcs that fit a similar role.

    Uruk Halberdiers:

    Similar to orc halberdier, but much less nimble. Armored in full plate and effective against armor.

    Mordor Uruks:

    Large unit size and greater availability compensates for weaker stats compared with other races' top tier infantry, but like all sword wielding soldiers, they're vulnerable against cavalry.

    Uruk Archers:

    I've buffed up their ranged attack a tad to make them worth training. Heavily armored, they're excellent at countering enemy archers. Though lacking a shield, they still hold their own in melee quite well, capable of turning back a cavalry charge.

    Uruk Bodyguard:

    Attack increased. These are supposed to be the best of the best among orcs, arent they?


    Tier 4 (elite):

    Black Numenorean Infantry:

    Size and cost increased.

    Mounted Numenorians:

    Trainable at Barad-dur in 30 man units. Planning to make them trainable at a high tier stable. Tell me what you think.

    AOR units:


    Mirkwood Wargs (available in Dol Guldur):

    A number of changes I plan to the wargs in general - HP 2, attack and cost increased, charge, mass and number reduced (~50 from original 88) and bonus against cavalry is greater. They are not a charge unit - but akin to wolves, to chase fleeing troops and enemy horsemen. I would also grant them bonuses in certain terrain, such as woods and mountains. I am planning to make them recruitable as mercenaries in Dol Guldur, where they can also be re-trained.

    MoS Guldur Slayers (Dol Guldur):

    A devastating counter to enemy armored units and cavalry. Attack, move speed and charge was increased somewhat, at the cost of armor (in the original, they apparently had a shield bonus - I changed this to make their defense come mostly from defense skill).

    Morannon Orcs (the Black Gate and near settlements):

    Largely unchanged from the original, except in a more distinguishable role. Better disciplined and armored than regular orcs, capable of schiltrom, and unlike Warband they can hold the line - if you can put enough of them in the field.

    Black Guard of Barad-dur (Barad-dur):


    Inspired by GW's table top game, these soldiers are clad in black steel and carry a large shield with a red eye. The best evil infantry in the game, these supremely armored units can go toe to toe with enemy elites such as dismounted swan knights and elf swordsmen. They can only be trained in the top tier Barad-dur barracks in very limited quantities.


    Things I am planning to remove:

    Nazgul Generals:

    I've said this many times before - having 9 nazgul generals is too much. Not only does this give you too much of an unfair advantage early on, since 2-3 of these in an army can totally rout an entire early gondor army. In addition I find it rather banal that the stars of your campaign are ego devoid, redundant hooded fellas. In my playthroughs I just forget them inside settlements and use orc generals. At the present stage I have removed them from the game. The faction will be led by the Witch King with Mounted Ringwraith bodyguards and Gothmog (handsome orc from the PJ movie) as the faction heir.

    Spiders (AOR mercenary):

    While it was a part of the canon that Sauron fielded hordes of giant spiders, I prefer to play without them, at least for the time being as both their model and behavior are quite weird and look out of place in the TaTW setting. As I mentioned, I would prefer their role being replaced by trainable wargs.

    Mumakil and other uber units from the reinforcement script (MoS):

    While I like the MoS reinforcement script for Mordor, which gives you various Rhun and Harad units, getting these ultra-powerful units potentially by turn 10 can be just game breaking, especially since they tend to come in a general's unit. I would like to see this script tweaked a little - in the first 50 turns you get lower quality Rhun and harad units (such as spearmen, archers and light cavalry) and after turn 50, you get better units like serpent guard, dragon regiments, etc. At the present though this is beyond my scripting skills, so I will satisfied with just replacing them with a basic cavalry or infantry unit.


    Tentative additions: (things I am not certain would improve gameplay experience, but would be curious to see)

    Nurnen Warriors:

    Remnant native population of Mordor enslaved and miserably subjugated to Sauron, armed with javelins and short swords. Similar to dunland soldiers, they are wild, savage and undisciplined, but stronger and braver than orc warband. Their AOR is in the inner parts of Mordor (such as Nurn) and they can complement the forces which vie with Harad in the early game eastern territory-grab. They can also be used to guard settlements and serve as auxiliaries.

    Black Numenorean Generals:

    Sauron apparently didn't have much love for the orcs, who in turn returned the cool sentiment. He wanted to rule over corrupt and wicked men who worshipped him and were far more capable of embodying his ideal world order. The idea of Mordor armies being led at least in part by evil human characters, certainly does tie in with the concept of a small remnant of Numenoreans serving as a ruling intermediary between Sauron and his dark hordes. This is already in game to a small extent - the diplomat is a human, presumably a Numenorean, the only ones capable in Mordor society, of education and intelligence needed to conduct diplomacy with other factions.

    Morgul Stalkers:

    Another uber unit lifted from GW's fantasy tabletop game. This unit appears in Morgul garrison script and can't move outside the castle. Its role is solely to guard Minas Morgul in case the early campaign goes dismally sour and Gondor seizes all of Ithilien. Keep in mind that in the current TaTW this role is performed by nazgul generals, who compensate very strongly to early game orc inferiority. I'd like to see this unit largely because I like the look of its model though.

    I've left the trolls and siege weapons unchanged.

    What I want to see is a Mordor roster where each unit can perform a unique role that complements an all infantry strategy. Some soldiers are fast, nimble chasers, others are indispensible as fodder troops to absorb devastating archer fire, and yet others are elite but slow, making up a second line of your army to intervene at crucial moments (think triarii). No longer will you forget about early tier orcs in favor of all uruk armies, and likewise, low tier armies would have a need to consist of more than just one kind of unit.


    I haven't been able to implement most these changes due to my lack of modding experience. However please tell me what you think about my ideas, and if you like them, I can slowly, step by step, upload my changes. Make sure to back up your existing data files before trying any of them out!

    Note: this descr_unit file requires MoS 1.6.2 with Director's cut. However if you're playing TaTW 3.2, you can just cut and paste only the mordor faction section into your descr_unit, since IIRC, MoS alters very little in the vanilla Mordor roster, so it should work, at least in theory.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Carl Jung was right; February 13, 2015 at 09:39 PM.

  2. #2
    Flinn's Avatar His Dudeness of TWC
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    Default Re: My ideas to improve the Mordor faction

    nice post mate, I enjoy reading it

    I have to say that seeing a Mordor faction like you imagined it, would be great. Of all the major factions (ie Gondor, Rohan, HE..), Mordor always had something less in terms of "flavour" (at least for me; I tried them many times and with various submods, but never gone over turn 100 or so). Maybe because it's boring to have no tactical alternatives, or because you need to rush the map in order to survive your terrible initial economy, one dosen't really feel to be the Dark Lord of an immense power. I deem your modifications would make the game much more interesting and funny for the player, while changing not much for the AI (due to autoresolve mechanics), maybe some balancing would be needed but not that much.

    I haven't been able to implement most these changes due to my lack of modding experience. However please tell me what you think about my ideas, and if you like them, I can put up my modified descr_unit file for you to play around with.
    I was going to suggest you to do so
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  3. #3

    Default Re: My ideas to improve the Mordor faction

    I would like to see that file as well, maybe so I can transplant it into DaC - my submod of choice. Like Flinn, i struggle with Mordor campaigns. I always want to turtle in true Dark Lord fashion but can't, which is a bit disappointing, and then the somewhat dull army rosters seals it. This would go a long way towards fixing that though. I would like to see Wargs being just wargs as well, without their riders, so they'd truly feel different to more vanilla cavalry. That would take more than a few descr_unit edits though unfortunately

  4. #4

    Default Re: My ideas to improve the Mordor faction

    Thanks for the responses, I will upload my descr.unit shortly. It was made for MoS 1.6.1 Director's cut, with balancing changes made to the Mordor roster.

    Aside from basic descr.unit and descr.strat edits, here's a small checklist of the things I find within my capability of doing:

    -Transfer the model of orc halberdier from the Gundabad faction to the proposed Mordor unit.
    -Transfer warg riders model from Isengard to Mordor
    -Remove Nazgul generals and replace WK's bodyguard with "Ringwraith Bodyguards" (a model for which is already present in the mod)
    -Either a new model for the proposed raider, or use the existing "orc looters" as a stand in, to distinguish them from "warband".
    -Transfer certain resources from DaC and Second Age mods for rider-less wargs and other beast units, and possibly the "Black Guard".

    However I will not move an inch in that last item unless I obtain permission from the authors.


    Also it should be noted that I can only work on this perhaps one day at a time, once a week, so expect very slow updates. Meanwhile, please feel free to add ideas, edits and content to this thread pertaining to ways the chief evil faction can be improved.
    Last edited by Carl Jung was right; February 08, 2015 at 02:39 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: My ideas to improve the Mordor faction

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Jung was right View Post
    -Transfer the model of orc halberdier from the Gundabad faction to the proposed Mordor unit.
    Take a look at the big unit submod, they have some really nice looking new mordor units, including Harberdiers; http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-(version-1-0)

  6. #6

    Default Re: My ideas to improve the Mordor faction

    Quote Originally Posted by Davek View Post
    Take a look at the big unit submod, they have some really nice looking new mordor units, including Harberdiers; http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-(version-1-0)
    Wow I was not aware of that. It looks fantastic. Certainly something I'm looking forward to incorporating some day if the authors wouldn't mind.
    Last edited by Carl Jung was right; February 08, 2015 at 03:48 PM.

  7. #7
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: My ideas to improve the Mordor faction

    Quote Originally Posted by Carl Jung was right View Post
    Wow I was not aware of that. It looks fantastic. Certainly something I'm looking forward to incorporating some day if the authors wouldn't mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by Policy of using
    All material in this submod is free to be used in other submods for Third Age if the creators are credited and link to this project is included in the op, the exeption is Lü Bu's work (Eomer, Elrond, Snaga Warband and Arnor Marines) which may be used by anybody as they wish with the following exeptions: 1) Eomer's shield can't be used in projects not for TATW unless you have King Kong's permission; 2) Orc head texture which is used in Snaga Warband may not be edited unless you have permission from Louis Lux. (This exeption applies also to Keepers of Cirith Ungol and Mordor Uruks, Uruk Halberds and Uruk Archers which are using this skin too.)
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  8. #8

    Default Re: [WIP] Mordor Improvement Project

    Some units, at least the Uruk Halberds and Mordor Uruks are used in the one of the submods of MOS the reunited kingdom mod. This mods adds quite a bit to MOS.

    In regards to Mordor, they added the Mordors call scripts, other evil armies spawn now and then to help out Mordor.

    It might be worthwhile for you to check out.
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-v1-4-RELEASED!

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