Can we have pre-EE hoplite phalanx back?

[vinxente]

Before EE, unit actually fight in formation when the ability is active. Now, it is just a simple magic ability that boost unit stats without any formation at all. Can DeI team bring the old feature back to Rome II?

[Grizwald714]

If I remember right the DEI team said they left out the animation because it was bugged with the AI and they constantly cycle in and out of the formation giving them an endless charge bonus.

[vinxente]

If I remember right the DEI team said they left out the animation because it was bugged with the AI and they constantly cycle in and out of the formation giving them an endless charge bonus.

I don't remember having such problem before EE. Since you cannot activate Hoplite phalanx during combat before EE, such problem would not exist if we could revert the change back.

[Dresden]

A bug was introduced in patch 14 that caused the infinite charge loop in our hoplite formation. If we use the vanilla formation, the AI does not use it in combat. If we use our formation with the animation, the infinite charge loop happens. The only alternative is to use ours without the animation.

[vinxente]

A bug was introduced in patch 14 that caused the infinite charge loop in our hoplite formation. If we use the vanilla formation, the AI does not use it in combat. If we use our formation with the animation, the infinite charge loop happens. The only alternative is to use ours without the animation.

By animation, did you mean the assume_specific_behavior field in the unit_special_abilities table? In patch 14, the enemy_in_proximity flag still works, how can AI activate hoplites formation during close combat? I think patch 15 introduces a bug with enemy_in_proximity therefore allow AI to continuously activate/deactativate the ability in melee.

So bad that all unit formations ability are mess up now with the release of EE.

[Mr. Scott]

A bug was introduced in patch 14 that caused the infinite charge loop in our hoplite formation. If we use the vanilla formation, the AI does not use it in combat. If we use our formation with the animation, the infinite charge loop happens. The only alternative is to use ours without the animation.

I remember a while back you mentioned that you had to manually order a hoplite or phalanx unit to attack the unit it is engaged in combat with, otherwise it just gets decimated. Is this still an issue?

[Dresden]

DeI uses headhunt and killing spree for shield wall and hoplite phalanx. This was our initial workaround to get the AI to use the abilities in combat, because the AI won't use vanilla formations in combat (other than pike phalanx). With all the BAI changes in patch 14, something they changed with those activated abilities had an issue with the shield wall assumed behavior we assigned them. This caused the AI to repeatedly charge over and over.

The options are basically:
1. Use vanilla settings (good looking formations, AI doesn't use them after engaging)
2. Use our settings (no formation animations, AI uses them)
3. Assign the stats to the hoplites permanently, still no animation.

[Augustusng]

3. Assign the stats to the hoplites permanently, still no animation.

I still prefer this option, if we don't find a way to fix the animations.

Well, with option 2 the AI doesn't use the formation until after they engage, so they don't get the charge bonus.

[KAM 2150]

Permanently does not work either. It introduces new, even far worse bug, because AI tries to turn it on/off dozen times per second which makes his units stop/walk dozen times per second.

[Augustusng]

Permanently does not work either. It introduces new, even far worse bug, because AI tries to turn it on/off dozen times per second which makes his units stop/walk dozen times per second.

I don't mean give them the ability turned on permanently, just get rid of the ability entirely and adjust their stats.

[Maetharin]

Do you mean the infinite charge cycle bug happens when using the DeI formations with animations or when permanently enabling vanilla formations?

Is there a way to get the AI to use the vanilla formations?

What does CA say to these bugs?

Would it be possible to just use an older build of Rome 2 and assign DeI's DBs to it?
I have asked KAM already if it were possible to change those parts of the game responsible for this bug with those of older builds, and he said no, but what about using an older Build and changing parts inferior to the current ones with these?

I know a ton of questions, but sometimes that's the only way to any solution^^
Best regards

[KAM 2150]

This is a BAI thing so we can't change anything about it.

Charge loop with shieldwall/hoplite animation (in the game there is not hoplite animation, it is simply shieldwall animation) was gone only when I made hoplite phalanx a passive ability like stamina so in theory it should be impossible to turn it off. Sadly AI is able to turn it off, but then turns it on, although does that like dozen time per second, which causes AI units to do small step, try to brace, do small step, try to brace, but like many times per second.

Fun fact, the same thing does not work for player as he is simply unable to turn it off. I have no idea why AI can. I basically made it to work like our stamina thing, which AI does not "touch", but for this one it breaks it.

[KAM 2150]

Ok, I was just able to go past the bug mentioned above, AI units were marching in phalanx formation towards my line, but new bug occured during charge phase. Shieldwall animation makes unit unable to run so they can't charge and they start to do that weird turn on/off thing, but now even my own units were turning stamina on/off many times per second during charge.

Still, I was never before reached that point so it was my biggest thing concerning hoplite phalanx in few past months.

[KAM 2150]

More testing done with new ideas.

Nope, shieldwall animation is broken. Even after allowing units in shieldwall to run, the bug was back when they were in charge distance and then charge loop was back when units went into combat.

In other words, I give up on this matter, I've lost around 20 hours so far on this one and I won't put more effort into it. There are more important stuff to do. This animation is only cool for standing/marching units anyway, since they do not hold formation when in combat.

[KAM 2150]

They will kill a bit faster if you will order them to do that.