Tips to get Saintly Generals

[Heskey]

Hey all,

I play 6.4 Late era with BGR V. I'd like to know fairly definitively what a player can do to ensure he raises good Saintly generals to help with tax, population growth, morale, and public relations.

I know of basics like release prisoners instead of ransoming or executing (1. If you ransom and they can't pay, does it count as an execution?), don't tax harshly etc, but what are your tips for getting chivalrous, pious, loyal generals?

Do you gain dread for Continuing a battle when you have the option to end it?
Do you gain dread for chasing an army on the campaign map that retreats from the first initiation of battle?

What's the best way to manipulate the tax rate to encourage positive general traits, and stave off negatives like bad at taxing? Changing the rate from Low to Normal every 5 turns, or on the last turn of a construction?

Also, some questions about the management of your generals/heir/King. Who leads the men into battle, and who stays at home to nurture the Kingdom?

Do you let your King and Heir lead by example, and lead the men in the field themselves - leaving lesser generals to act as governors?
Do you let your Heir carve his own kingdom whilst the King rules from the throne, having done as his son(s) is doing in his youth?
Do you protect your royal family, commanding lesser generals to do their bidding whilst they remain with their subjects?

[Competizione]

Well for getting chivalry, you've summed up most of it. To be honest, I wouldn't know if ransoming has effect on chivalry, I know there are traits associated with it so perhaps. I never ransom myself since releasing makes it easier to boost your chivalry and the ransom money is negligible most of the time. I usually exploit crusades to some extent, whether I'm participating or not, each time the crusade is about to end, I assign generals that need an extra point to a large enough army. I've noticed that joining a crusade always gives you the "fair in rule trait". Going on a crusade, or multiple ones is the best way to go: build a proper army, put a few generals in there to get the crusader trait and head towards your target. In the best situation your general that does the battling can get an artifact or knights accompanying him.

It also boosts piety, if you're into that. Being near a city that gives the pilgrimage trait boosts piety too. What I've noticed is that going on alot of heroic victories boosts piety as well, the victor virtue trait is the one you'll need to go for (when maxed out, your character gets the suffix "the Conqueror")

Loyalty is something you can do less about really, at least in my experience. I'm currently playing as the Crusader States and one of my generals (max chivalry, max command) has been fighting the Moors in Africa. It didn't matter how many battles he was in, his loyalty is still at a meagre 3 points. Bringing them near your capital can help disloyal generals walk in line, but apart from that, no idea.

I usually play without BYG so I don't manipulate the tax rates. When I do play BYG, I generally change the tax rate on the last turn of a construction.

As for management, I go for option 2. When the heir comes of age, your king will probably have accumulated a good amount of chivalry and positive traits. At that point I retire him to a regional capital, usually a city with high economic potential to make that city grow. The heir then expands the kingdom till his son comes of age and so the process repeats. Since I fight on multiple fronts half the time, I usually have one family member doing the fighting on every other front. I generally choose them based on whether or not they have the "military minded" trait and check other traits like energetic, smart, natural commander etc. I often let these generals accumulate dread points to make the fighting on those less important fronts easier.

Hope this helps!

[Byg]

Just a side note about ransoming in BGRIV or BGRV.

The advantage gained by keeping your generals free to ransom far outweighs any benefit gained through pursuing chivalry stats by releasing prisoners. Keeping your nobles wealthy is very high on the list of priorities and ransoms from battles can be vital unless you are proficient enough to keep your nobles enriched via state appointments and awarding them regions to govern.

So if your king keeps freeing prisoners you will inevitably increase chivalry to the point where your leader will adopt a code of chivalry for all. Your nobles will no longer have the option, perhaps to stave off debt or pay heavy taxes, of ransoming.

Keeping the king neutral, with less than 6 chivalry and less than 6 dread, enables you to do whatever you like with your nobles prisoners.

Also bear in mind the obvious fact that your heir will rule immediately upon your kings death, so it might be useful to keep him neutral too, unless you are sure of the Kings safety.

[tudor93]

I know of basics like release prisoners instead of ransoming or executing (1. If you ransom and they can't pay, does it count as an execution?)

If you ask for a ransom, but the enemy can't pay and their troops are executed, you won't get dread, and also your global standing and relations with that faction won't drop like they usually do if you execute their troops.

Do you gain dread for Continuing a battle when you have the option to end it?

This is another thing that I don't think is strictly true: pressing continue/end battle has no impact on chivalry/dread that I can find in export_descr_character_traits.txt. However, your continued actions after continuing the battle make it more likely that you will fulfill the criteria to gain battledread.

For example, if you win a heroic victory with odds being 0.95:1 against you, and kill/capture 65% of the enemy during battle, that's below the 70% threshold needed for battle3Dread_TotalAnnihilation, but if you continue the battle and capture another 10% of their forces, meaning you capture/kill 75%, then you can get more battle dread (unless you already have battle chivalry). However, if you already had killed 70+% of their forces before the "End/Continue battle" dialogue comes up, then you'd still be eligible for the battle3Dread_TotalAnnihilation trigger. Pressing "continue" or "end" itself has no direct impact.





Bear in mind that you only get chivalry/dread effects from executing/releasing 81+ prisoners.

What's the best way to manipulate the tax rate to encourage positive general traits, and stave off negatives like bad at taxing? Changing the rate from Low to Normal every 5 turns, or on the last turn of a construction?

AFAIK, the moment when a building is finished triggers traits that affect taxing (if the tax rate is on low, before the building finishes set it on very high or high). I haven't played M2TW in almost 2 years, but IIRC you can find the trait triggers in the descr_character_traits file (or maybe it was export_character_traits).

[Historian Vegetius]

Talking about generals - is there any point to mod the file (if it is changeable is SS 6.4) to give bodyguard 2 hit points or does giving 2nd hit point overpower them?

[Macunaíma]

About the loyalty thing, there are some ancillaries that your faction leader can give to boost it, like the Privy Seal or Lord High Steward. Aside from that, I've witnessed loyalty increase in generals who fought several battles after doing nothing for a long time. One of them, for example, was rotting in Jerusalem for several turns and had only 1 of loyalty (if I'm not mistaken he actually got the "unleashed ambition" trait), and then I sent him on a crusade, succeeded and then he fought several battles defending the city. He reached 5 loyalty and now has 4, if I recall correctly.

Talking about traits and stuff, I have a question. I fought a battle with my heir which ended up with him capturing a fortress. He didn't chase routing troops, ended the battle, released prisoners and occupied the settlement, but still got the "Sanguinary" trait, which I've never seen before and gives him +2 Dread. How did he get that?

[tudor93]

Talking about traits and stuff, I have a question. I fought a battle with my heir which ended up with him capturing a fortress. He didn't chase routing troops, ended the battle, released prisoners and occupied the settlement, but still got the "Sanguinary" trait, which I've never seen before and gives him +2 Dread. How did he get that?

Read my reply (pay attention to what Maklodes exaplained). Also, I know that your general can gain dread if he kills lots of men by himself (the general, not his bodyguards).

[Macunaíma]

I guessed it was something like that, based on the trait description. I like to throw my generals in battle because I always thought that would give them chivalry, in opposition to cowardly staying behind the front lines. Is that correct?

[Strategos Autokrator]

http://www.gamefaqs.com/pc/931592-me...war/faqs/50116

Winning First (BattleDread 1)- +1 Dread, gained after 1 point of BattleDread
Cruel and Cunning (BattleDread 2)- +2 Dread, upgrade after 3 points of
BattleDread
Merciless Mauler (BattleDread 3)- +3 Dread, upgrade after 6 points of
BattleDread
Field Tyrant (BattleDread 4)- +4 Dread, +1 Authority, epithet "the Mauler",
upgrade after 10 points of BattleDread
Warlord of Terror (BattleDread 5)- +5 Dread, +2 Authority, epithet "the Lord
of Terror", upgrade after 15 points of BattleDread

Here comes complicated triggers. The way BattleChivalry and BattleDread work
is that they are not antitraits, but instead, are handled by having each
trigger for one check to make sure there are no points of the other. This
means that sometimes the game favors one or the other, depending on which
conditions it checks first.

A general offered for adoption or lesser adoption gains a point of
BattleDread with 50% probability if he does not have any levels of
BattleChivalry. Note that this is called after the trigger to gain
BattleChivalry on adoption, so it is more likely that he gets BattleChivalry
than BattleDread on adoption. If he gains this point, he gains 2 more points
with 33% probability.
If a general with no levels of BattleChivalry kills eight or more enemies in
a battle, he gains a point of BattleDread with 50% probability. If a general
loses a battle in which the general did not kill any of the enemy, and the
total number of enemy killed is less than 10%, he loses a point of
BattleDread. If a general routs in battle and kills less than 8 enemies, and
the total number of enemy killed is less than 33%, he loses 2 points of
BattleDread. If a general routs in a battle with odds greater than .75,
kills less than 8 enemies, and his army kills less than or equal to 66% but
greater than or equal to 33% of the enemy, he loses a point of BattleDread.
If a general with no levels of BattleChivalry attacks an enemy and kills more
than 50% of them in a battle with odds greater than 1.5 he gains a point of
BattleDread. If a general with no levels in BattleChivalry wins a normal
battle in which he hit at least one enemy, the battle success was crushing or
greater, the odds less than .95, and he killed more than 70% of the enemy, he
gains 2 points of BattleDread. If a general with no levels in BattleChivalry
wins a battle with a success rating of average or greater, the odds were less
than .95, he did not fight in the combat, and killed less than 20% of the
enemy, he loses a point of BattleDread.
---
Fair Fighter (BattleChivalry 1)- +1 Chivalry, gained after 1 point of
BattleChivalry
Noble in Battle (BattleChivalry 2)- +2 Chivalry, upgrade after 3 points of
BattleChivalry
Bastion of Chivalry (BattleChivalry 3)- +3 Chivalry, upgrade after 6 points
of BattleChivalry
Champion of Honor (BattleChivalry 4)- +4 Chivalry, +1 Authority, epithet "the
Chivalrous", upgrade after 10 points of BattleChivalry
Saint of Battle (BattleChivalry 5)- +5 Chivalry, +2 Authority, epithet "the
Champion", upgrade after 15 points of BattleChivalry

The way BattleChivalry and BattleDread work is that they are not antitraits,
but instead, are handled by having each trigger for one check to make sure
there are no points of the other. This means that sometimes the game favors
one or the other, depending on which conditions it checks first.

A general offered for adoption, lesser adoption or marriage gains a point of
BattleChivalry with 50% probability. If a general offered for adoption or
lesser adoption gains this point, he gains two more points with 33%
probability. Note that these options come before the triggers for gaining
BattleDread on adoption or marriage, so it is far more likely a general will
start with BattleChivalry.

If a general with no levels of BattleDread kills eight or more enemies in a
battle, he gains a point of BattleChivalry.
Note that this trigger comes -after- the similar trigger for BattleDread, so
it is far more likely a combative general will gain points of BattleDread
unless you somehow acquire BattleChivalry otherwise.

If a general loses a battle in which the general did not kill any of the
enemy, and the total number of enemy killed is less than 10%, he loses a
point of BattleChivalry. If a general routs in battle and kills less than 8
enemies, and the total number of enemy killed is less than 33%, he loses 2
points of BattleChivalry. If a general routs in a battle with odds greater
than .75, kills less than 8 enemies, and his army kills less than or equal to
66% but greater than or equal to 33% of the enemy, he loses a point of
BattleChivalry. If a general wins a battle with odds less than .8 in which
he was not the attacker, he has no levels of BattleDread and he personally
fought in combat, he gains a point of BattleChivalry. If a general wins any
battle with odds less than or equal to .5, he personally fought in combat,
and he does not have any levels in BattleDread, he gains a point of
BattleChivalry with 66% probability. If a Catholic or Orthodox general with
no levels of BattleDread attacks an Islamic general, he gains a point of
BattleChivalry with 33% probability. If an Islamic general with no levels of
BattleDread attacks a Catholic general, he gains a point of BattleChivalry
with 66% probability. If a general with no levels of BattleDread wins a
battle with success rating of average or better, kills less than 20% of the
enemy, and the battle odds were less than .95, he gains a point of
BattleChivalry with 33% probability.