That's A Lot of Euros

[Aanker]

It started with political intrigue, with forming sketchy agreements and bonds that hinted at a far murkier purpose than just to correct the internal course of the nation. Then came the outward advances; propping up similar thinking and acting movements and politicians in other nations to assure the formation of the necessary alliances. After that, ethnic tension and fierce nationalism were exploited to overthrow foreign governments, eventually escalating into full-blown invasion, annexation and war, with massive human and material losses.

I would honestly forgive you for thinking that I'm talking about modern Putin-led Russia here, but it's actually Nazi Germany prior to World War II. I know that it's easy to mix the two up, especially when presented like this. But that makes it all the more... Ironic.

Yes, in other words, savvy Russian politicians are now considering a proposal which would hold modern day Germany liable for the immense humanitarian and material losses of the Eastern Front of World War II, essentially requiring them to pay somewhere in the range of €3-4000 billion. Now, that's a lot. Secondly, the chief of the Russian duma has had the brilliant idea of finding a way to declare the historical reunification of West Germany with the DDR an unlawful annexation.

(the original source was an article on a respected Swedish newspaper, Dagens Nyheter, so I had to find an English language article on Newsweek for those of you who do not master the descendant language of the Vikings*: http://www.newsweek.com/russian-parl...germany-304163 )

Apart from the quite humorous nature of the proposals, and the fact that they can't really be taken any more seriously than the most feverish posts of the Russian troll factory in St. Petersburg, they do raise a range of interesting questions:

- will this help turn the German masses into Putin's embrace once and for all? Or has this once pragmatic mediator between east and west now been discarded as a 'comrade' for good?
- will Angela Merkel now feel pressed to cease the sanctions, intimidated by the thermonuclear levels of hipocrisy? Or will she rather realize that there simply is no moving forward diplomatically anymore?
- does this behaviour point towards a broader trend, where autocracies, to save face inwardly, must estrange their former friends? Can Laika come back from outer space and save Russia's relationship with Europe?

The year is barely 2015 AD and the diplomatic drama is already intensifying.

*But if you do, here it is: http://mobil.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/r...d-av-tyskland/

[removeduser_487563287433]

What a joke. Hope Merkel intensifies the sanctions and puts them four trillion in the hole.

[Kyriakos]

What a joke. Hope Merkel intensifies the sanctions and puts them four trillion in the hole.

Lol, the EU is not Germany, and a unanimous decision is needed in the EU (not even just the Eurozone/common currency zone) for any increase or change to sanctions.

This will be fun

[Ludicus]

Lol, the EU is not Germany...

I have some doubts. Many years ago, Kissinger said, "Who do I call if I want to call Europe?"
Today, things changed. No, it's not Cameron or Hollande. It's Merkel. There's no doubt about that. I am not alone in this opinion.

[Thorn777]

What a joke. Hope Merkel intensifies the sanctions and puts them four trillion in the hole.

Ach So. So the Brits finally have again what they want. Meanwhile treathening Germany to halt ist NSA investigations by no longer "sharing Intel". Of course it also helps that Obama poses as being on the Greek side. Etc...

Let the games begin.

[conon394]

Ach So. So the Brits finally have again what they want. Meanwhile treathening Germany to halt ist NSA investigations by no longer "sharing Intel". Of course it also helps that Obama poses as being on the Greek side. Etc...

Let the games begin.

What?

----------

PR stunt anyway. What gives Russia the right to demand reparations for a dead state (USSR). Anyway Poland and Finland should demand reparations (and or return of Territory) if Moscow wants to play being the USSR. Better yet France as well without active USSR aid and 'Russian' troops The Invasion of Poland by Germany would not gone as smooth and maybe France would have been forced to act...

[Kyriakos]

What?

----------

PR stunt anyway. What gives Russia the right to demand reparations for a dead state (USSR). Anyway Poland and Finland should demand reparations (and or return of Territory) if Moscow wants to play being the USSR. Better yet France as well without active USSR aid and 'Russian' troops The Invasion of Poland by Germany would not gone as smooth and maybe France would have been forced to act...

Or... Ourselves asking the reparations which were even signed to be given, but never did? Games will be beginning, indeed, although personally i hope the german politicians of this time will just be backtracked and not lead the union into a far more dire situation (regardless, though, even if Merkel would agree, some tied to her ring euro politicians are set to be ousted by popular vote).

[Stavroforos]

What?

----------

PR stunt anyway. What gives Russia the right to demand reparations for a dead state (USSR). Anyway Poland and Finland should demand reparations (and or return of Territory) if Moscow wants to play being the USSR. Better yet France as well without active USSR aid and 'Russian' troops The Invasion of Poland by Germany would not gone as smooth and maybe France would have been forced to act...

Russia is the legal successor to the USSR, so it doesn't matter if the actions occurred against Russia or the USSR. As far as Poland and Finland go, losers don't ask for war reparations.

[conon394]

Russia is the legal successor to the USSR, so it doesn't matter if the actions occurred against Russia or the USSR. As far as Poland and Finland go, losers don't ask for war reparations.

OK than I want my Lend Lease money back in current dollars from Russia, and of course the the OP article referenced Greece I believe they qualify as a loser.

[Kissaki]

Russia is the legal successor to the USSR, so it doesn't matter if the actions occurred against Russia or the USSR. As far as Poland and Finland go, losers don't ask for war reparations.

What, Poland was on the losing side, now? Or was it "game over" because they were occupied? In which case, Denmark, Norway, Greece, Holland, Belgium and occupied France were also losers with no right to demand reparations.

[removeduser_487563287433]

Ach So. So the Brits finally have again what they want. Meanwhile treathening Germany to halt ist NSA investigations by no longer "sharing Intel". Of course it also helps that Obama poses as being on the Greek side. Etc...

Let the games begin.

Sorry, what do you imagine this has to do with the UK?

[Thorn777]

Sorry, what do you imagine this has to do with the UK?

UK treathens Germany to halt the NSA investigation...

And your eagerness for "Merkel to be more willing on sanctions"(instead of like talking with Russia and agreeing to Terms with them, like they just did), most surely was developed under your British eco-system, where its nomenclatura has ist own strategic Goals that coincide on all sorts of matters(even if you think due to that eco-system you live in, all just happens in a vacuum). Goals that more often than not intend on destroying nations in various ways.

Hey wouldnt it be reasonable if Gerhard Schröder had demanded of UK to put heavy economic sanctions on USA during the Iraq war? Would totally fly, right? No matters. Ist the gays we have to think about. And the cute Russian hipster Girls with short hairs. Who cares about 1.2 Million dead Iraqi's. Its the 5 dead Crimeans that Count.

[6th Vigil]

UK treathens Germany to halt the NSA investigation...

And your eagerness for "Merkel to be more willing on sanctions"(instead of like talking with Russia and agreeing to Terms with them, like they just did), most surely was developed under your British eco-system, where its nomenclatura has ist own strategic Goals that coincide on all sorts of matters(even if you think due to that eco-system you live in, all just happens in a vacuum). Goals that more often than not intend on destroying nations in various ways.

What is this supposed to mean? You've really got to get a handle on your Anglophobia, it borders on some kind of weird racism.

Hey wouldnt it be reasonable if Gerhard Schröder had demanded of UK to put heavy economic sanctions on USA during the Iraq war? Would totally fly, right? No matters. Ist the gays we have to think about. And the cute Russian hipster Girls with short hairs. Who cares about 1.2 Million dead Iraqi's. Its the 5 dead Crimeans that Count.

Maybe he should have if he really disagreed with it. Oh, but I guess it's too late for that. Oh well, just have to make sure that the next time a country does something similar that the appropriate action is taken. Oh wait, that's happening right now. I guess you approve of punitive actions towards Russia right? I mean you think the USA's aggressive policies deserve condemnation so naturally you must also disapprove of when Russia acts in the same manner. Right?

Otherwise: Hypocrisy know thyself.

[removeduser_487563287433]

UK treathens Germany to halt the NSA investigation...

Don't think this is true a at all (and I doubt you're going to back it up) and it's also irrelevant to the topic.

And your eagerness for "Merkel to be more willing on sanctions"(instead of like talking with Russia and agreeing to Terms with them, like they just did), most surely was developed under your British eco-system, where its nomenclatura has ist own strategic Goals that coincide on all sorts of matters(even if you think due to that eco-system you live in, all just happens in a vacuum). Goals that more often than not intend on destroying nations in various ways.

Hey wouldnt it be reasonable if Gerhard Schröder had demanded of UK to put heavy economic sanctions on USA during the Iraq war? Would totally fly, right? No matters. Ist the gays we have to think about. And the cute Russian hipster Girls with short hairs. Who cares about 1.2 Million dead Iraqi's. Its the 5 dead Crimeans that Count.

Again off-topic, but Germany has willingly sanctioned Russia so you're not even synced with the facts.

[YukonTrooper]

First paragraph sounds like America, much more so than Putin's Russia.

I think wartime reparations are ridiculous, but if Israel continues to receive billions from Germany, why can't Russia? Weren't their losses more significant anyways?

[removeduser_487563287433]

To my knowledge Germany continues to pay holocaust survivors, but has ceased paying reparations to Israel some time ago.

The USSR essentially plundered East Germany for reparations after the war. They also annexed parts of Germany that remain Russian today.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy...ic#Reparations

The Western Allies had similar plans to plunder West Germany, but, thank God, it was realised pretty quickly that this would have led to a helpless state that would likely face famine. Instead the Marshal Plan created the circumstances where, once Soviet Power collapsed, Germany could be reunited as a powerful democratic state.

Let's not discuss this at face value, it's just Russia delivering yet another petulant insult.

[Aanker]

I think wartime reparations are ridiculous, but if Israel continues to receive billions from Germany, why can't Russia? Weren't their losses more significant anyways?

Maybe because it quite frankly is a riddiculous claim?

The purpose isn't even to get the money anyway, and the Duma knows very well that it won't see a single coin make its way into the Kremlin coffers this way. It's just another way of masterful diplomatic play, estranging an old partner in Europe for the sake of 'lulz'.

[Abdülmecid I]

The start was very promising, with heroic military victories over the allies. One by one, their enemies were forced to seek peace, with humiliating terms and then... disaster came! The armies were soundly defeated, the proud nation surrendered, giving large parts of its territory to its most hated enemies. Then, dark years followed, with the proud nation not being a great power anymore, so the defeated men became bitter, and more bitter and even more bitter towards the men responsible for the collapse of the empire. I'd honestly forgive you, if you're thinking I'm talking about WWI, but it's actually the Great Northern War.

I would honestly forgive you for thinking that I'm talking about modern Putin-led Russia here, but it's actually Nazi Germany prior to World War II. I know that it's easy to mix the two up, especially when presented like this. But that makes it all the more... Ironic.

Seriously, I'm already familiar with the russophobic tone of your posts, but that's over the top, it's insulting to the millions of victims of the 3rd Reich.

[Aanker]

Seriously, I'm already familiar with the russophobic tone of your posts, but that's over the top, it's insulting to the millions of victims of the 3rd Reich.

The magic word! Now all valid complaints and concerns must be set aside, for surely we cannot engage in russophobia. I make whatever comparisons I find valid, that goes for all nations... Especially those who should be critically aware that they are repeating the pattern of their former arch enemy.

[Abdülmecid I]

The magic word! Now all valid complaints and concerns must be set aside, for surely we cannot engage in russophobia. I make whatever comparisons I find valid, that goes for all nations... Especially those who should be critically aware that they are repeating the pattern of their former arch enemy.

You're free to make whatever comparison you like, as I'm free to consider your comparisons russophobic. After all, you don't need to be a Worshipper of the Shirtless One to realize that the comparison of Russia being the 3rd reich, because both of them annexed another state's territory, is laughable. Except if you believe that every political entity, from the Sumerians and the Athenians to the Swedes and the Turks, has a fascist ideology and genocidal tendencies.