Restarting as Orcs of Gundabad - tips?

**Boogie Knight** · February 04, 2015, 06:21 PM

Today I gave up on an Orcs of Gundabad campaign. It was my first time playing on H/H difficulty, and while I knew it would be tough I had no real idea just how hard it would turn out to be. I'm not an experienced M2TW player by any means, and this was only my third attempt at a TATW campaign (first was Dale which also failed, second was a Silvan Elves campaign which I won, both M/M). I'm determined to try again as I'd love to see what the faction is really capable of, regardless of my own sub-par skills at this game.

What ultimately went wrong for me was my attempt to take Imladris. I'd been holding rather well against Eriador and the Dwarves, and had a number of good alliances and trade agreements. I'd been told however that the OotMM would take care of Imladris for me. Roughly 100 turns in, they had not done that. They were doing well in general (after some early-game propping up from me), but had shown no signs of attempting to advance in that direction. Eventually a High Elven army emerged from that region and besieged and conquered the Coldfells, which was precisely the last thing I needed. I was able to retake it, but after sending a full stack down to Imladris I lost the battle after they sallied. Fair enough I thought, I'll send two stacks. But to build two stacks I had to put myself in crippling debt which only got worse as Arnor reformed and took three of my settlements in one turn. I then lost most of those two stacks in the process of taking Imladris (and fighting my way to it - garrison scripts got the better of me) and when trying to regain my lost lands (while still in ~8,000 worth of debt) I ran up against several Arnorian armies complete with heavy units which outnumbered me on every occasion.

So, if I'm to try again on an easier difficulty, should I try to conquer Imladris early on? If so, does anyone have any tips? I don't want to leave it to the OotMM again, but I have terrifying visions of going up against garrison scripts full of elite elves with snaga stalkers and a couple of warg units - that's what crippled me on the first attempt. It's not possible to bring reinforcements to the fight as it can only be approached from one narrow direction. So what does one do? If anyone has any advice I'd love to hear it, along with any general tips for the Orcs of God-Awful as a faction.

**Youital** · February 04, 2015, 07:14 PM

trolls man, trolls will solve all your problems

**Davek** · February 05, 2015, 02:23 AM

There is some useful info in this thread: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...are-people-too!

I would advise to hit Eriador hard in the beginning since they can field most armies against you. The high elfs need a 100 turns to build a decent army.

It can be a good idea to take on Imladris early in the game. The garrison scripts spawns a limited number of units so if there are not to many units in the town you won't have to face a full army. If you army is larger the elves will not sally forth right away. So siege them and wait till they come out, this might take 8 or 9 turns. Attrition will have decimated the eleven army by then.

I think the sally forth on Imladris will be on the long stretch of road. If so the elves will form a big mod there, catapults could help there.

**DrDragun** · February 05, 2015, 08:39 AM

When I play Gundabad, I rush to form a front holding Amon Sul and Fornost Erian, because all of the territory in between is indefensible villages and very expensive to keep a garrison there. But those 2 wooden castles can support a decent free garrison, produce wargs and goblin spears, and serve as a platform to assault Eriador.

Build a warg cage early in Carn Dum so you can win battles with classic hammer+anvil tactics, and also be aware you have a 2nd form of cavalry in Rhaduar mercenaries around the Imladris region. You will have a surge of power around turn 46-50 when your first wave of trolls come out, use it to fully conquer Eriador's heartland from Annuminas to Tharbad if you haven't yet. This is also when I usually take Imladris, with the help of the first troll-wave (after the first troll wave there is 15-20 turns before you can recruit the next wave... make sure you saved enough money!). On the East, I just fortify Gundabad because it is a single-city front if the Dwarves take Dain's Halls. If you see the Dain's Hall border turn from brown to grey, you can start planning a force to go take it as it is a nice castle that can produce trolls and has mines.

The campaign isn't too terrible.. unlike OotMM you aren't fighting elves the whole time. You don't get snaga skirmishers but you do get 2 troll species. Don't over-recruit generals, be mindful of your economy, and plan on building most of your army from Carn Dum for the first 50 turns and you'll do fine.

**Cat-astrophic** · February 05, 2015, 02:32 PM

Playing as Eriador (MOS) right now, from the perspective of OOG or OOMM the best thing they have been doing is sending massive numbers and making me fight in 2 fronts, also they sometimes try to take Amon-Sul, which is near Bree, so I have to divert troops from the north or loose two important settlements. Also, If they are not at war yet negotiate with your allies to attack Eriador and Elves.

**Boogie Knight** · February 06, 2015, 06:24 AM

Well, I'm about 45 turns in now and things have taken several unexpected turns. The High Elves tried to attack the Coldfells much earlier than I thought, I think due to the OotMM triggering Rivendell's garrison script. I beat them to the punch though, and sneaked the army I was building for Eriador into the Trollshaws via Hoarwell. It was a full stack, but consisted mostly of snaga, with a few goblin spearmen scattered, along with one unit each of trolls, wargs and orc fellers. I laid siege to it despite the mid-sized garrison already there, triggering the script, and decided I'd try to wait and starve them out. One turn later a small army of theirs hit my besieging force from behind, and by some miracle I achieved a heroic victory in the ensuing battle, utterly destroying Rivendell's garrison and running off the relieving force. So Imladris is, thanks to all the gods above, mine. Elrond was killed by the OotMM a few turns earlier.

The other unexpected development is that the dwarves are gone. I had a fair-sized force sitting around near Dain's Halls to keep it under OotMM's control, but stupidly (although in the end it worked to my advantage) moved it back into Wrakyaburg to build watchtowers along the border with the Silvans. When I moved back up I found a large dwarven force under King Nain (also containing Balin) laying siege to Dain's Halls, which had a very large Orcish garrison. I parked my army next to the dwarves hoping to be able to intervene in the battle, but next turn the dwarves were in control of the fortress. I can only assume they launched a night attack. Either way it cost them dearly, so I laid siege to it and they sallied the next turn. Both of us took huge losses in that battle, but I won after killing first Balin and then Nain, giving me control of the Halls. A few turns after that I got a message saying the dwarves had been exterminated as a faction. I can only assume Rhun did it, as war had broken out between them a few turns earlier. I'm honestly kind of disappointed as I'd hoped for a long campaign against them in the Blue Mountains; my previous campaign as the Silvans took a similar turn when the OotMM collapsed before I could lay siege to Moria and battle the Balrog, which I'd been looking forward to.

So my twisted, Orcish gaze turns now to the Free Peoples of Eriador, and eventually to the High Elves cowering along the coast. Thanks for the tips on dealing with them; I can't wait to be able to fight now with a proper roster, one which I've been able to get thanks to the barracks I've built with the extra money from Rivendell. The Eriadorians have struck the first blow by attacking a group of wargs and trolls I was sending to Carn Dum for retraining, and soon they'll be faced with snow trolls and elite Orcs. Those poor, poor Hobbits.

**Flinn** · February 06, 2015, 08:54 AM

a tip if you'd like to push this campaing to later turns: if you manage to become a powerhouse in the north (after conquering Eriador), you can think of rebelling against Sauron.

I once followed an AAR in which the guy at about turn 150 rebelled against Sauron (not giving back the One Ring, is the best way) playing as OMM and it was amazing.. of course you can also remain side by side with Sauron and clearing up the rest of ME, but most probably Harad, Mordor and Isengard will clear up Gondor and Rohan, so there will remain little to do.. and anyway you are the mighty Orcs of Gundaband, who cares who owns something? if you like it, GRAB IT! ohoh

**LuckyPistol** · February 06, 2015, 12:55 PM

Wargs wargs wargs

Use them, appreciate them, feed them hobbitses

But you look like you've got things under control. I was going to suggest you let the OotMM lose Dains Halls so you can take it

Eriador is a piece of cake, just be careful of Dunedain units and General Bodyguard. The dwarves however will be quite aggressive, so keep a good stock of wargs to flank them from behind with a hammer and anvil technique and rout up every unit you can. No survivors. The same advice goes for the Silvan Elves. they have mostly low armored archer units so wargs are key! you only need one unit of trolls for their bodyguard/elites.

High Elves though.....just...just keep them outnumbered and pray.

**k/t** · February 07, 2015, 03:47 AM

Where's that AAR? I want to read it too.

**Flinn** · February 07, 2015, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by k/t

Where's that AAR? I want to read it too.

there you are

**Boogie Knight** · February 07, 2015, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Flinn

there you are

That one! I started reading the first few chapters of that a few months ago, when I was thinking about whether to download Third Age or not. That really helped persuade me to try it out; I really must find where I left off and see how it ended.

Also, Davek, I was looking into MOS and its various submods. Inevitably at some point I'll download it, but I was wondering how technically complex it is; will I have to deal with many CTDs and fix various bits of script?

**Flinn** · February 07, 2015, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by Boogie Knight

That one! I started reading the first few chapters of that a few months ago, when I was thinking about whether to download Third Age or not. That really helped persuade me to try it out; I really must find where I left off and see how it ended.

Also, Davek, I was looking into MOS and its various submods. Inevitably at some point I'll download it, but I was wondering how technically complex it is; will I have to deal with many CTDs and fix various bits of script?

you should finish it! I really liked it

Also, about MOS: I've been a regular player of it for at least one year; I haven't tried the last patch, but I can ensure you that it's worth trying it, and that is pretty stable (although sometimes turn time might be an issue, at least to someone). Furthermore, when using MOS you'll have the possibility to try the Reunited Kingdom submod. Be warned anyway, that MOS is usually a harder game than the regular Vanilla TATW.

**Ngugi** · February 07, 2015, 12:12 PM

Originally Posted by Flinn

Be warned anyway, that MOS is usually a harder game than the regular Vanilla TATW.

Don't, for example, activate Shadows of the East, unless you want to experience a world of pain.

**Boogie Knight** · February 07, 2015, 05:51 AM

Unexpected developments! Anyone got any strategies for fighting Dale? With the Dwarves gone as a faction, I put a small force together to try and take Erebor, but I met a Dale (Dalish?) army on the way who absolutely wrecked my troops; they outnumbered me by about 200 men. I hadn't expected a field battle, so my force only contained one unit of wargs which was utterly wrecked by their light cavalry. A few turns later I tried again but went up against an even larger stack of theirs, which turned into one of the closest fought battles I've ever experienced. They won; we reduced each other to only a few dozen men, but because more of their units routed and got away (my wargs were leading Dale's cavalry on a chase around the battlefield) they were able to walk away with about 300 men left, while I had barely two dozen survivors.

I now have several crippled units sitting in Wormcove, which fortunately doesn't seem to be on their radar at the moment. If they're sending anything my way, it's to Dain's Halls (I suppose this is because that region borders their territory) but if they get around to capturing Erebor for themselves (which for some reason they've not yet done) I'm going to find myself in real trouble. At the moment all they seem to be doing is sitting on and around my border with themselves and Erebor's region. I'm not sure how best to fight a war on two fronts at extreme ends of my territory. The war against Eriador is going fairly well; my attacks on Nenuial (I think that's what it was called) from Pitkaranta have all been repulsed, but I was able to take Amon Sul with a stack I was sending on an Invasion Sauron called on East Osgiliath (hooray for free upkeep!) loaded with trolls, wargs and Rhudaur mercenaries (I love love LOVE the touch of including Rhudaur humans in this game, and especially of making them recruitable by Orcish factions).

I'm having an absolute blast on this playthrough; all I'd like now is a bit of advice on how best to deal with Dale. Thanks so much for everyone's help so far, it's been invaluable.

**Davek** · February 07, 2015, 06:58 AM

In battle strategies, I can not offer much advise other than what already was given. Dale strength is their ranged units and Calvary. So close the lines quick and send Wrags with support to flank. Orc feller are reasonable effective for this role. They are pretty quick and their amour piercing is useful to take on the heavy cavalry (including bodygaurds). I haven't really faced Dale, so no more battle advise from me.

Campaign wise: I would focus on taking Dale and Esgaroth, they are main settlements/strongholds of Dale. Together with Erabor they provide you with a nice fortified position of three important towns close to each other.

Since you: "LOVE the touch of including Rhudaur humans" I would recommend the Reunited Kingdom mod (requires MOS installed). This mods offer the Orcs of Gundabad the opportunity to reforge Angmar and recall the WitchKing to the north. In a addition to the Nazgul it also offers some additional elite Uruk units and some heavy armored human units.

**Ngugi** · February 08, 2015, 10:38 AM

If you play MOS, you'll find out.

And if you're at it, don't forget to activate Corsair Invasion and Sarumans Forces, just to spice it up a little.

**DrDragun** · February 10, 2015, 09:50 AM

Dale uses archer generals, which are extremely easy to assassinate with cavalry. The general always stands on the left side of the formation, so flank from the left (your right) and charge with 1-2 units of armor-piercing wargs and he will often die on the first charge. The AI typically assigns a blocker unit of spearmen and/or their own cavalry to run man-coverage of your cavalry, so split your cavalry in the backfield to create an opening, and then BAM there's that archer general standing all alone in the backfield. You will NEED wargs to deal with archer armies, as chasing them around with snagas is torture (unless you can force sieges instead of field battles). I mean it breaks the game... the archers will stay in skirmish mode and make every battle take 40 minutes...

And yeah, MOS is awesome.

**Macilrille** · February 15, 2015, 06:59 AM

MOS FTW. I have never played OoTG, so I can offer no advice on them. But I can say that if you want a challenge, try MOS + RK with all evil options activated as a good guy. It is a challenge, especially for Gondor. I suppose as Bad guy you get a similar challenge. Perhaps I should try...

In any case, if you still find Vanilla challenging on H/H, there is no need to yet. Have your fun, get sated on Vanilla on VH/VH, then try MOS and get your behind handed to you. I played it M/M for a long time and still found it difficult.