Ai is again passive

[suras333]

Massilia, Grand Campaign, VH/VH


I have now 14 provinces (including Roma) - everybody is friend of me, nobody is declaring war against me


This is the 3 campaign I start with different factions and I have the same problem. At some point (after I conquer a medium number of provinces), the Ai became passive,
I receive Defensive Aliances requests etc..


On the other hand, in CiG, playing as Rome it's complete oposite (which is VERY GOOD!), at some point, everybody hates me! And I defend myself, I can use my brain etc


So, can we do something about CG via CiG or is this happens only to me?


Thanks

[Jin-]

Hah true. Playing CiG DeI feels actually hard when it comes how aggressive AI is. Try it with limited campaign map movement sub mod. Makes that snow mountain area really nice when you move slowly there and enemy attacks from the west grass plains

[TheOrangeProject]

Well that would not be smart move from the AI. Would you declare war against a faction 10 times bigger than you?

Smart=!passiv. Smart=!aggressive.

Shogun 2 had complains for the definitly not smart faceaggro against human players. Now the AI doens't suicide and some are still not happy. No offense, but why don't you just declare war on everyone? The AI is not one big entity but many different factions, each based on their own codes and algorithm which determines their behaviour. In this sense, the AI doens't communicate between each other like "Let's declare war on the human player". Hence it doens't make much sense to talk about in this way about the AI.

[Drowsy]

I totally love it, i can actually leave some provinces empty and design other provinces so they train/reduce the upkeep costs of legions stationed there.

I still remember expecting a DOW ala shogun2 during my first R2 campaign the moment i put my 2 legions heading for Africa in transport ships.

[GourmetGorilla]

No, it's not just you. To be clear, maybe the AI could be a bit more aggressive for the sake of gameplay, but to be honest, I consider the current state of diplomacy in the GC to be quite reasonable, even justified from a historical background. They are your friends because they trust you openly, and fear you in secret. It's called hegemonic peace. You just need some expansionist ambition to keep your campaigns going!

[GourmetGorilla]

Also, Massilia has a bonus which actively promotes hegemonic peace. It's called "local dominance", and it provides a diplomatic bonus with ALL factions. What you are reporting is to be expected. Your play-style may be more suited to a Barcid or Junii campaign, but even then you will find yourself declaring your own wars eventually. Especially when your enemies are afraid of you!

[RollingWave]

I certainly got completely wooped in my Odyressian Kingdom campaign last night, granted that was only like 15 turns before I was essentially check mated.

[suras333]

There are factions near me almost as big as me, and very passive, but maybe it's just me.. Picking my own war makes everything too easy.

[Blackthorne556]

I tend to find myself "growing enemies". I grow my economy. I make powerful friends. I drag those friends into wars with their weaker neighbors, funding the war. When I have several large empires to deal with (usually 1 in each major geographical area, Gaul, Iberia, Carthagian africa, Egyptian Africa, ect, ect) I break off my ties to them and see how things unfold.

It also helps to disband the lions share of your armies. Currently serving troops add to your balance of power, which the AI uses to make decisions about if you are a viable target or not.

EDIT: Also: Once you have some large potential enemies, and you've left yourself open with less active troops, make meaningless treaties with small nobodies, then next turn declare war on them. Get that "Trustworthy" off your faction. People look kindly on reliable factions. If you're spoiling for a fight, stand out as one of the more deceitful kids in the playground.

[Elin4Lyfe]

It makes sense mostly. AIs won't declare on you unless they think they will win. Now if you wanna see stupid, ask Baktria about those peace treaties they paid me 12000 talents for (broken the next turn, sack the capital lel).

[rjacko10]

Yes I find the AI is way precious about it's survival. It's like it actually thinks it's alive... (maybe CA have made the first real AI??)

Anyways, Lord Dresden said he is creating a harder submod because people (i.e. me) were complaining last week. I hope he will tweak diplomacy so it's harder to keep your neighbours happy and your borders threat free.

[GourmetGorilla]

Yes I find the AI is way precious about it's survival. It's like it actually thinks it's alive... (maybe CA have made the first real AI??)

Anyways, Lord Dresden said he is creating a harder submod because people (i.e. me) were complaining last week. I hope he will tweak diplomacy so it's harder to keep your neighbours happy and your borders threat free.

Wahoo~!

[Elin4Lyfe]

Yep, while its exploitable, its realistic that the AI would throw all their money into getting a peace deal to save itself from annhilation. If anything, what they should do is make betrayals cost you some public order. Something like 10 per betrayal that decays just like conquest PO penalty would be a realistic way to portray civil unrest when betraying an ally or breaking a new treaty . After all, its realistic that these things would cause civil unrest - In the case of betraying allies, there would be travellers and traders intermingled in your territory, along with sympathizing civilians. Merchants would be angered by the loss of trade etc.

[FlashHeart07]

I think that with the harder diplomacy submod from Dresden and together with the CAI tendency of having armies posted at your borders even though you are at peace will make the game a bit more challenging. That way you can experience some real backstabbing and surprise attacks from the AI instead of having years of preparation before they actually attack

[sander454]

That can also be seen during wars between AI factions. In my Rome campaign Venetii declared war on Delmatae yet when I sent spy I noticed that both factions have full stacks of soldiers in their respective capitals. No movement for almost 20 turns until I decided to wipe Venetiis out. The same happened during war of Insubres vs Ligureas. Both build full stacks yet neither seems to brave enough to attack.

[TheOrangeProject]

Well that's for the passive part

I offered them 4500 for a non aggression pact and arche is green / reliable. Two turns later they seem to have forget the whole reliable thing.

(The campaign is over - armenia also declared war one turn before and invaded me with 1 and 1/2 stack in the 6 turn.)

[suras333]

Ok, but read again my post then... "after I conquer a medium number of provinces"

Before that, yes, you have to fight very well.

[TheOrangeProject]

As I pointed out earlier, the AI is not one big entity.

The question is simple: Would you attack a significant bigger and stronger empire? You are expecting a high lvl of thinking from the AI. In order to fullfill the stated requirement (more aggressive) it must be able to communicate with other factions (AI) in order to coordinate actions against you. That is kind of a big jump for the AI - like the different factions having an actual conversation, since there are different reasons which as to be weighed against each other. Another problem is the game mechanic itself, there are no real options to coordinate attacks. The diplomatic target setting is nice, but of no use for more complicated stuff.

[rjacko10]

Thread has done a full circle. So I shall thus play may part once more, but concise:

This problem is known and has been discussed. Resulting in Dresden saying he will make a harder difficulty submod at some point. This hopefully make factions declare war on you more often in a balanced and challenging way.

FlashHeart, I believe you're up next Gourmet, get ready to celebrate again

[Dresden]

I have been busy after getting back from the mod summit but I will work on the hardcore submod when I get an opportunity.