[Submod] Improved Spotting Distances for more Tactical AI RELEASED Feb 2

[rjacko10]

This is just an FYI as I doubt you've tested fort battles yet.

I've played a lot of fort battles yesterday. The AI followed a predictable pattern but I don't know if it's similar to vanilla AI. Here's what happened:

Note I have superior numbers of superior troops.

Approached fort with many archers. Opened fire. After 3/4 of one unit has been killed the AI blows its horn and all units pour out and rush towards my line of hoplites. My peltasts move round to the side and throw javs. Cav chases down runners and remaining skirmishers in the fort. Game over.

Is this similar behaviour to vanilla?

[Jatischar92]

This is just an FYI as I doubt you've tested fort battles yet.

I've played a lot of fort battles yesterday. The AI followed a predictable pattern but I don't know if it's similar to vanilla AI. Here's what happened:

Note I have superior numbers of superior troops.

Approached fort with many archers. Opened fire. After 3/4 of one unit has been killed the AI blows its horn and all units pour out and rush towards my line of hoplites. My peltasts move round to the side and throw javs. Cav chases down runners and remaining skirmishers in the fort. Game over.

Is this similar behaviour to vanilla?

Its exactely how it happens in Vanilla, same thing

[Alexandre Lange]

This is just an FYI as I doubt you've tested fort battles yet.

I've played a lot of fort battles yesterday. The AI followed a predictable pattern but I don't know if it's similar to vanilla AI. Here's what happened:

Note I have superior numbers of superior troops.

Approached fort with many archers. Opened fire. After 3/4 of one unit has been killed the AI blows its horn and all units pour out and rush towards my line of hoplites. My peltasts move round to the side and throw javs. Cav chases down runners and remaining skirmishers in the fort. Game over.

Is this similar behaviour to vanilla?

In vanilla (or DeI without this mod), units in a fort usually stay there. What I do? Burn the palisade and front towers from distance with fire arrows, then rain of arrows over the troops stationed in the fort. They don't react until it's too late for them. Then they come out and meet their doom with my full strenght forces. Game over. I would be glad if with this mod they go out early (and they could, as they see far away). Forts are good for player, AI in forts is just enclousured cattle.

[FlashHeart07]

I think that because the path finding in sieges and perhaps also in fort battles are different than regular battles you will not see the same results as we report. To see a change in how the BAI reacts in sieges would require us to change the pathfinding which isnt possible. But on land battles you will see a slight change in BAI behaviour with this mod

[Durador]

This is really working! I used it in my campaign.

In my first battle i was fighting a slave uprising.
What the AI did i never saw it doing before.
They made a very long line with there units it was even longer then mine. So there was a chance for them to envelop me.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Second battle, this was against Carthage. they fist attack my line with there elephants and 1 sword unite. the rest of the army was just waiting.
Then there army was attacking my right part of the line and also flanking me on the right side with spear units and cav.
They ignored the rest of my left flank.
I had to bring my left flank back to secure the rear attacks from the AI in my right side. So there was for me no time to use those units to attack there rear.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

In the third battle, the AI flankt my javelin men with there cav. then the cav returned and did it again against my spear units. in this battle the AI had more cav and they really used it against me.
they again used there melee units to flank me.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

i know its hard to see it on the pictures.

[Butan]

Kudos on the work When you find the sweet point I think this could be put into main .pack.

[suras333]

I made a test with interesting (good) results.

One problem: The enemy general died first because of a suicidal attack

[KAM 2150]

I am a bit overwokred and overstressed latelty so I have little time to mod or play. Can I add your alternative version in next patch for experimental battles?

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

So basicly Vanilla BAI is correct but due lack of sight, so they just make bad decision

[KAM 2150]

So basicly Vanilla BAI is correct but due lack of sight, so they just make bad decision

I wouldn't say correct but yes, it is less dumb. For example without this submod in alternative version AI cavalry never acknowledged the exitence of my cav on flanks, eventhough it wasn't hidden. With the submod AI cav will flank and attack your cavalry if not possitioned to far behind.

[Junaidi83 de Bodemloze]

I wouldn't say correct but yes, it is less dumb. For example without this submod in alternative version AI cavalry never acknowledged the exitence of my cav on flanks, eventhough it wasn't hidden. With the submod AI cav will flank and attack your cavalry if not possitioned to far behind.

Well you cant hit what you cant see, very agree about this, i think BAI at least able to make correct decision , especialy on siege.The tweak is also lightly and easy to understand,and tweaked i guess i preffer to stick with minimum 2499 value

Anyway this is good job indeed

[MagicCuboid]

Absolutely KAM!

[KAM 2150]

Absolutely KAM!

Thanks

[Scaevola]

Impressive. It's good to see improvements on CA's oldest weakpoint. Solution seems legit. How did you even came up with the idea?^^

I try to mess around with it in custom battles. I'll let you know if I find something out.

[Butan]

Alexandre Lange, I think fort battles may be like that when the AI defends, partly because of pallisade's LoS restriction. I will try to see if they change their behaviour with modded LoS.
Its been a few days that I feel like the AI sees things only unit by unit, and not "globally" (as we, the player, when we see things with our "all seeing eye"), which may explain much of the BAI improvement when we set the line of sight to maximum for every units. Its hard to know if yes or no without seeing how BAI works, and since its unmoddable...

[MagicCuboid]

Added a new "Extreme" version made by Butan. This one allows NO hiding whatsoever; consider for testing purposes.

[Butan]

To check what Alexandre Lange said I did two scenarios:

- I tried a fort battle with the extreme version, with the AI in defense, with a equally strong army in my hands.
The AI stayed in the fort.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

- Same scenario but with a weaker army, and the AI sallied out and attacked in formation like in a plain battle.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Can someone confirm if this is vanilla behaviour or not?


I tried the same thing on a plain battle, and the AI didnt go into attack, even against a weaker army, if it is on the defense side.
Might try in a settlement fight, to see if the AI is able to forgo his walls and attack outside if it feels the outside army can be crushed.

[664566]

Tested, seems to work nicely, thank you !

Would it be possible to make an alternative version with normal "visibilitymin_spot_range" values?
I think it's a shame to loose the "line of sight" hiding mechanics.

[Alexandre Lange]

Butan: I never had experienced the AI going out from a fort by its own initiative. Maybe because my army was never weak enough for them to think they could crush me; can't tell. Anyway, being a mod, vanilla or DeI thing, I liked it a lot: it shows at least some degree of analysis from AI side.

Now supposing that AI stays in the fort: using this mod, if I burn down the palisades, AI can see all my army and react better, right?

[FlashHeart07]

Butan: I never had experienced the AI going out from a fort by its own initiative. Maybe because my army was never weak enough for them to think they could crush me; can't tell. Anyway, being a mod, vanilla or DeI thing, I liked it a lot: it shows at least some degree of analysis from AI side.

Now supposing that AI stays in the fort: using this mod, if I burn down the palisades, AI can see all my army and react better, right?

My experience is that if the AI is stronger than you they have a tendency of leaving the fort and attack you outside. Have seen this multiple times when the AI had a huge army reinforcing. This was only with the main mod and no other submods.