Triarii vs Illyrioi Hoplitai

**Richard** · February 02, 2015, 03:39 AM

Playing as Rome, and bumping up against the Delmatae, the strongest troops I can currently field aren't putting a dent in the enemy's hoplites. Am wondering if this is a bug of some sort, or if not, what are the stats of triarii vs Illyrioi Hoplitai?

Even outnumbering them 3 to 2, my guys just get whittled down to nothing and only kill a handful of hoplites (despite surrounding them totally)

Any idea what's going on?

**gornoviceanu** · February 02, 2015, 04:04 AM

OK, first off, if you are playing on a battle difficulty higher than "Normal" then the AI gets stat bonuses to all it's units. Second off, from what I experienced with Rome, Triarii or similar troops like Hoplites are not too efficient as flanking force. Hastatii or Princepes would be better suited for that.

Did you use the phalanx formation for your Triarii? If the enemy did, and you didn't that's one other possible explanation.

**Richard** · February 02, 2015, 04:32 PM

Hastati and Principes are even worse than Triarii. I basically have no troops who can beat these hoplites.

These are all early game units btw, no reforms

**RandyRhoads** · February 02, 2015, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Hastati and Principes are even worse than Triarii. I basically have no troops who can beat these hoplites.

These are all early game units btw, no reforms

Javelins in the back work best

**BooBooLovesAll** · February 02, 2015, 06:42 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

Hastati and Principes are even worse than Triarii. I basically have no troops who can beat these hoplites.

These are all early game units btw, no reforms

I know it's not historically correct, but I throw the Triarii info phalanx mode, put the histati as back and flank with the Principes.

**brusciatu** · February 02, 2015, 04:08 AM

I have noticed this also.

The only solution to take them down is to punish them with missile units from behind (leves/velites),otherwise they'll obliterate every unit.

It is some kind of problem when the AI fields a 20 stack with 10-12 with them,it's very frustrating/challenging but rewarding when you are able to defeat them.

**Krixux** · February 02, 2015, 04:15 AM

Originally Posted by Richard

Playing as Rome, and bumping up against the Delmatae, the strongest troops I can currently field aren't putting a dent in the enemy's hoplites. Am wondering if this is a bug of some sort, or if not, what are the stats of triarii vs Illyrioi Hoplitai?

Even outnumbering them 3 to 2, my guys just get whittled down to nothing and only kill a handful of hoplites (despite surrounding them totally)

Any idea what's going on?

You mean north Illyria ?

those guys in Iader ( the marble city lol) ?
I never use Triarii on them ...

my Legion for Ilyrians:
1 Gen (lol)
2 Socii equites extraorfinarii
2 socii equites (light)
6 hastatii
6 principes
3 accensi slingers

IMO Illyrians are the easiest to kill
low morale , easy to flank , and worthless Cavalry (if any)...
...exaggerating but kind of true ... = when I fight them , I normally clean around my room, kook , talk on the phone and now and them come to my PC to see if the battle is finished (that bad)

...set all your inf. in square formation and go take a shower, when back = heroic/decisive victory ...
lol don't do that, but is not far from the truth
Illyrians as AI faction = worthless..
imho
...

**brusciatu** · February 02, 2015, 04:22 AM

Originally Posted by Krixux

You mean north Illyria ?

those guys in Iader ( the marble city lol) ?
I never use Triarii on them ...

my Legion for Ilyrians:
1 Gen (lol)
2 Socii equites extraorfinarii
2 socii equites (light)
6 hastatii
6 principes
3 accensi slingers

IMO Illyrians are the easiest to kill
low morale , easy to flank , and worthless Cavalry (if any)...
...exaggerating but kind of true ... = when I fight them , I normally clean around my room, kook , talk on the phone and now and them come to my PC to see if the battle is finished (that bad)

...set all your inf. in square formation and go take a shower, when back = heroic/decisive victory ...
lol don't do that, but is not far from the truth
Illyrians as AI faction = worthless..
imho
...

Yes,that's true WHEN you have access to the socii.

In my first campaign i have destroyed the veneti and then the dalmatae declared war at me.The first reform didn't already occurred,so my hastati,principes were all spears,simply put i had to rely on missile and sacrifice all of my infrantry as a cannon fodder against them.

**Krixux** · February 02, 2015, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by brusciatu

Yes,that's true WHEN you have access to the socii.

In my first campaign i have destroyed the veneti and then the dalmatae declared war at me.The first reform didn't already occurred,so my hastati,principes were all spears,simply put i had to rely on missile and sacrifice all of my infrantry as a cannon fodder against them.

indeed , you are right, this is valid AFTER Polybean reforms

**RollingWave** · February 02, 2015, 05:23 AM

Even without cavalry, what you do is to not try to directly bump into the phalanx head on, but use defense formations, and then run around the side with your slingers / javelin / archers and just pummel from the rear.

**Consulo** · February 02, 2015, 09:46 PM

This thread is oddly relevant to an experience I just had!

I invaded Epidamos after the Daorsi took it and managed to take it with ease. The next turn they hit me with two stacks. Even with defenses and hoplites and triarii I lost after 30 minutes in a pitched battle. Even when you're attacking these guys directly from behind those battles are massive attrition situations. I ended up losing the battle after defeating half of their army, but they were so filled with the illrioi hoplitai that they just outlasted me. I was even rotating lines for defense going from triarii & hoplites to hastati to principes and back to triarii & hoplites. They eventually broke though.

You are right though in the fact that if you can pin an enemy and get around them, you're in good shape to just throw projectiles at them. If you've got archers of any sort you're golden.

**meerkatology** · February 03, 2015, 02:45 AM

triarri are hoplites with superior or at least equal stats with illyrian hoplites triarii should never lost any early game hoplites of other factions if you are using normal battle difficulty. if you are using higher, its supposed to be hard, use tactics.

**KAM 2150** · February 03, 2015, 04:45 AM

And a WIP patch since it nerfs hoplites from the back in melee combat ;D

**Richard** · February 03, 2015, 08:54 PM

So I tried this battle again. This time, I put triarii in phalanx, hid my principes in the forest and flanked the Illyrian hoplites. Just kept pulling back and charging again with the principes. Worked well.

Also on the latest version since I first tried this, so not sure if that made a difference.

**HarkonRules** · February 03, 2015, 09:26 PM

Originally Posted by Richard

So I tried this battle again. This time, I put triarii in phalanx, hid my principes in the forest and flanked the Illyrian hoplites. Just kept pulling back and charging again with the principes. Worked well.

Also on the latest version since I first tried this, so not sure if that made a difference.

I find it looks really comical to use infantry like that, like cavalry. Like a silly zig zag of death.