Seleucids and Armenia - bugs or features?

**Philozoraptor** · February 01, 2015, 05:02 AM

Seleucids can recruit late companion cav from level 4 stables before thorax reform (not sure by thureos), but they need thorax reform and lvl 4 stables for cataphracts. This makes little sense gameplay wise since late companions are superior to cataphracts.

Familiar thing happens to Armens, they can recruit both bodyguard spearmen (not sure by their name) and legionary spearmen from lvl 3 barracks without any reform. Because of this legionary spearmen are redundant. Another armenian unit I dont understand is Nakhar cavalry, they are only Armenian cav that got "western" number of men while all other armenian cav got nomad numbers. In addition, all their vissible stats are inferior to armenian bodyguard cataphracts. Infantry Nakhars seem to underperform vs similiar units aswell (perhaps difference in some hidden stat?) and they have only 1 javelin instead of 2.

**meerkatology** · February 01, 2015, 05:33 AM

infantry nakharhar has like the highest stats out of any melee infantry...

**Philozoraptor** · February 01, 2015, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by meerkatology

infantry nakharhar has like the highest stats out of any melee infantry...

Exactly, but their results are much worse then their stats. They are actually pretty even with imperial pretorians (if they use shield wall and dont throw second pila barrage) aka if AI plays with pretorians. But they get crushed by seleucid royal swordsmen every single time I test them. Either they lose whole first row during charge (because seleucids got 5 more charge) and if you brace with them, they loose in melee anyway. And by loosing I mean loosing a lot. Just try them.

**GourmetGorilla** · February 01, 2015, 04:10 PM

Hmm. It would be nice to see this fixed soon, I was about to start up an Armenian campaign.

**GourmetGorilla** · February 01, 2015, 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by Philozoraptor

Exactly, but their results are much worse then their stats. They are actually pretty even with imperial pretorians (if they use shield wall and dont throw second pila barrage) aka if AI plays with pretorians. But they get crushed by seleucid royal swordsmen every single time I test them. Either they lose whole first row during charge (because seleucids got 5 more charge) and if you brace with them, they loose in melee anyway. And by loosing I mean loosing a lot. Just try them.

I just played several custom battles as Armenia, and I don't see any problem with the Nakharhar. The Seleukid Royals will naturally be a bit stronger, but this can easily be mitigated with local superiority. I'm going to start up a campaign, and I'll post back if I have conflicting results, but I don't think there's anything to fix....

**KAM 2150** · February 01, 2015, 04:12 PM

What there is to fix? They have one of the toughest units in the game. If they kill to slow then do not turn shieldwall on as it makes units more deffensive. Pretorians have 1 AP point from usage of gladius so they will be on the advantage when both units fight in shieldwall. There are no hidded stats for intantry.

**Alexandre Lange** · February 01, 2015, 09:56 PM

I am playing a Hayasdan campaing. All heavy spearmen become avaliable at first reform (60+ turns), while we have no heavy swordsmen until the last reform. Armenian Legionary Spearmen and Kentronakan Spearmen are a bit op for the period they become avaliable.