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Thread: [New experimental stuff]More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 13.07.2015 update

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  1. #1
    MagicCuboid's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 30.01.2015

    Have anyone tried to see how easily hidden units are detected compared to how DeI is now?
    I was going to test that now, playing as the Iberians.

    Unfortunately I wont be able to test this myself. Someone forgot to tell me that you actually have to study at the University. And therefore I have to live off of your campaigns and battle test.
    Haha, as for me, now you know what your teachers did during snow days growing up
    "I've snapped and plotted all my life. There's no other way to be alive, king, and fifty all at once." - Henry II, The Lion in Winter

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    FlashHeart07's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 30.01.2015

    Haha, as for me, now you know what your teachers did during snow days growing up
    But my teachers didnt have Rome to spend time on. All they had for fun was studying and waiting for the winter to pass.

  3. #3

    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 30.01.2015

    Seems too good to be true

  4. #4
    MagicCuboid's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 30.01.2015

    [edit]

    Big confusion on my end. I was using Krixux's first file. The second one doesn't let the game load because it's not saved in the "db" folder lol
    Last edited by MagicCuboid; February 02, 2015 at 01:11 PM.
    "I've snapped and plotted all my life. There's no other way to be alive, king, and fifty all at once." - Henry II, The Lion in Winter

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    Krixux's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 30.01.2015

    Gentlemen !!!!
    I cannot rep you (reached my rep quota lol)
    WELL DONNE

    This MOD, these guys behind it, Dresden, KAM, Butan, Litharion , all of them need all the help they can get

    We the DeI user are coming back with a vengeance (lol) !

    MagicCuboid =
    thx m8 for testing
    play with values as you se fit

    I am looking for further stuff in data_Rome2 and see what else is related to battle mechanics
    (detection, what makes the AI move the way it does , etc - hope to find more)

    btw had similar results as you
    the AI really (!!!) does react and counter my moves

    I need to step back make a list
    and write down results
    ps:
    My values were just a guess
    balancing that is the real work...
    will take time

    cu soon
    D I V I D E - ET - I M P E R A

    & A PROPER EMPIRE: TERRA INCOGNITA .... A P E - T I
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________
    "Perhaps, as some wit remarked, the best proof that there is Intelligent Life in Outer Space is the fact it hasn't come here. Well, it can't hide forever - one day we will overhear it."

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    MagicCuboid's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 30.01.2015

    Yeah hey Krix, I just wanted to clarify I was testing your original LOS idea, not the pick_target_distance change. Sorry for the confusion, I must be seeing ghosts on my computer!
    "I've snapped and plotted all my life. There's no other way to be alive, king, and fifty all at once." - Henry II, The Lion in Winter

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    MagicCuboid's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 30.01.2015

    Inspired by Krixux, I've made my own blind test. Rather than a set value of 200, I've gone ahead and doubled the visibility of every unit. This means heavy infantry have a LOS of 80, light inf have 100, heavy cav 120, and light cav 200. I've done this for every unit.

    I haven't tried these values out yet. However, I'd guess LOS of 80/100 for infantry should be enough for their behavior to take your main line into account. I'll be "testing" this the rest of the day on campaign, but if anyone else would like to try, here's the link:

    @statsVisibility.pack

    Just use this instead of KAM's experimental, as I edited his pack directly and only changed the visibility.
    "I've snapped and plotted all my life. There's no other way to be alive, king, and fifty all at once." - Henry II, The Lion in Winter

  8. #8
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 30.01.2015

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicCuboid View Post
    Inspired by Krixux, I've made my own blind test. Rather than a set value of 200, I've gone ahead and doubled the visibility of every unit. This means heavy infantry have a LOS of 80, light inf have 100, heavy cav 120, and light cav 200. I've done this for every unit.

    I haven't tried these values out yet. However, I'd guess LOS of 80/100 for infantry should be enough for their behavior to take your main line into account. I'll be "testing" this the rest of the day on campaign, but if anyone else would like to try, here's the link:

    @statsVisibility.pack

    Just use this instead of KAM's experimental, as I edited his pack directly and only changed the visibility.
    These ranges you have listed for the LOS, are they comparable to the ranges of missile units? if so, that would mean a unit would not be able to see the archer unit that is firing on it. 135 arrow vs 100 Infantry LOS.

  9. #9

    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 30.01.2015

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicCuboid View Post
    Inspired by Krixux, I've made my own blind test. Rather than a set value of 200, I've gone ahead and doubled the visibility of every unit. This means heavy infantry have a LOS of 80, light inf have 100, heavy cav 120, and light cav 200. I've done this for every unit.

    I haven't tried these values out yet. However, I'd guess LOS of 80/100 for infantry should be enough for their behavior to take your main line into account. I'll be "testing" this the rest of the day on campaign, but if anyone else would like to try, here's the link:

    @statsVisibility.pack

    Just use this instead of KAM's experimental, as I edited his pack directly and only changed the visibility.
    I am trying to load this pack (last in order ofc) but get stuck in splash-screen, some incompatibility? Not using any other mods

  10. #10
    FlashHeart07's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 30.01.2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Jatischar92 View Post
    I am trying to load this pack (last in order ofc) but get stuck in splash-screen, some incompatibility? Not using any other mods
    Since it overwrites the main files in DeI it should be loaded first.

  11. #11
    Krixux's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 30.01.2015

    Quote Originally Posted by MagicCuboid View Post
    Inspired by Krixux, I've made my own blind test. Rather than a set value of 200, I've gone ahead and doubled the visibility of every unit. This means heavy infantry have a LOS of 80, light inf have 100, heavy cav 120, and light cav 200. I've done this for every unit.

    I haven't tried these values out yet. However, I'd guess LOS of 80/100 for infantry should be enough for their behavior to take your main line into account. I'll be "testing" this the rest of the day on campaign, but if anyone else would like to try, here's the link:

    @statsVisibility.pack

    Just use this instead of KAM's experimental, as I edited his pack directly and only changed the visibility.
    cool very cool !
    I gave values above 100 though

    with vh inf lowest = 100
    h inf =115
    (...)
    sear inf = 130 to 150
    (some)...sword/elite inf = 160

    missile = between 140 and 200

    vh Cav = 160
    v light cav = 250 (!) = those buggers are eating my slingers alive (lol)

    it does the trick



    ps
    still looking for hidden stuff in data...
    (found something ...surprise....)
    my eyes are pouring from their sockets...
    i'll call it a night
    :p
    D I V I D E - ET - I M P E R A

    & A PROPER EMPIRE: TERRA INCOGNITA .... A P E - T I
    __________________________________________________________________________________________________
    "Perhaps, as some wit remarked, the best proof that there is Intelligent Life in Outer Space is the fact it hasn't come here. Well, it can't hide forever - one day we will overhear it."

  12. #12

    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 30.01.2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Krixux View Post
    still looking for hidden stuff in data...
    (found something ...surprise....)
    my eyes are pouring from their sockets...
    i'll call it a night
    :p
    What's this... a cliff hanger?

    Tune in tomorrow to find out more ...


  13. #13
    MagicCuboid's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 30.01.2015

    Yup, as some predicted my values didn't produce great results. Enemy would still reliably play "follow the leader". I'll bump it up to your values Krix
    "I've snapped and plotted all my life. There's no other way to be alive, king, and fifty all at once." - Henry II, The Lion in Winter

  14. #14

    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 30.01.2015

    Do you guys know what this table is about and if its used?
    Or its obsolete and only the units spot values are used? Or a mix?


  15. #15

    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 30.01.2015

    If the spotting distance theory helps AI to use cavalry you could go back to having slightly longer battles (although I thought they were too slow before).

    The missile units weren't used too well before either

  16. #16

    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 30.01.2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy1973 View Post
    If the spotting distance theory helps AI to use cavalry you could go back to having slightly longer battles (although I thought they were too slow before).

    The missile units weren't used too well before either
    Sorry but this is not the point about why long battles don't work. The AI will still aggress 99% of its melee force on the getgo, never flank their missiles, and rarely ever flank a cavalry unit more than one time. Even if it keeps it in reserve, that cavalry will aggress once, and then behave much like elephants. Fight to die or aggress the next nearby unit once won.

  17. #17
    MagicCuboid's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 30.01.2015

    Butan, that is probably a global modifier to spotting distance based on the skill the unit has! If it works the same, we might be able to release a submod that only edits that table instead of every unit in land_units haha
    "I've snapped and plotted all my life. There's no other way to be alive, king, and fifty all at once." - Henry II, The Lion in Winter

  18. #18

    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 30.01.2015

    I still wonder where would spotting skill would come from. There is no scouting levels afaik, thats why I also think it might be obsolete.
    Still as you said, it might be active enough so that we can put minimum/maximum values to every units individual spotting values.

  19. #19
    MagicCuboid's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 30.01.2015

    "average_scouting" "elite_scouting" etc. is a passive skill given to units under a column in land_units. I assume the game references them, because Rome 2 invented scouting distances, but I could be wrong.
    "I've snapped and plotted all my life. There's no other way to be alive, king, and fifty all at once." - Henry II, The Lion in Winter

  20. #20

    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 30.01.2015

    You're right, they must be both used.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    Now what I dont understand is why they have spotting distance attributed to them in "land_units" and a scouting level attributed which gives them differents spotting distances (often much better except "not a scout").
    Maybe one is "hiding strenght" and the other is "spotting strenght"? Or might be they are the same, and the best value is used, simply.
    And I believe the "minimum/maximum" visibility means at what distance non-hidden units become visible with the line of sight system (combined with battle realism probably, and possibly a real-time multi check).


    Might be wrong on more than one element.
    Krixux should know
    Last edited by Butan; February 02, 2015 at 08:38 PM.

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