[New experimental stuff]More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 13.07.2015 update

[MagicCuboid]

Have anyone tried to see how easily hidden units are detected compared to how DeI is now?

I was going to test that now, playing as the Iberians.

Unfortunately I wont be able to test this myself. Someone forgot to tell me that you actually have to study at the University. And therefore I have to live off of your campaigns and battle test.

Haha, as for me, now you know what your teachers did during snow days growing up

[FlashHeart07]

Haha, as for me, now you know what your teachers did during snow days growing up

But my teachers didnt have Rome to spend time on. All they had for fun was studying and waiting for the winter to pass.

[Butan]

Seems too good to be true

[MagicCuboid]

[edit]

Big confusion on my end. I was using Krixux's first file. The second one doesn't let the game load because it's not saved in the "db" folder lol

[Krixux]

Gentlemen !!!!
I cannot rep you (reached my rep quota lol)
WELL DONNE

This MOD, these guys behind it, Dresden, KAM, Butan, Litharion , all of them need all the help they can get

We the DeI user are coming back with a vengeance (lol) !

MagicCuboid =
thx m8 for testing
play with values as you se fit

I am looking for further stuff in data_Rome2 and see what else is related to battle mechanics
(detection, what makes the AI move the way it does , etc - hope to find more)

btw had similar results as you
the AI really (!!!) does react and counter my moves

I need to step back make a list
and write down results
ps:
My values were just a guess
balancing that is the real work...
will take time

cu soon

[MagicCuboid]

Yeah hey Krix, I just wanted to clarify I was testing your original LOS idea, not the pick_target_distance change. Sorry for the confusion, I must be seeing ghosts on my computer!

[MagicCuboid]

Inspired by Krixux, I've made my own blind test. Rather than a set value of 200, I've gone ahead and doubled the visibility of every unit. This means heavy infantry have a LOS of 80, light inf have 100, heavy cav 120, and light cav 200. I've done this for every unit.

I haven't tried these values out yet. However, I'd guess LOS of 80/100 for infantry should be enough for their behavior to take your main line into account. I'll be "testing" this the rest of the day on campaign, but if anyone else would like to try, here's the link:

@statsVisibility.pack

Just use this instead of KAM's experimental, as I edited his pack directly and only changed the visibility.

[zonks40]

Inspired by Krixux, I've made my own blind test. Rather than a set value of 200, I've gone ahead and doubled the visibility of every unit. This means heavy infantry have a LOS of 80, light inf have 100, heavy cav 120, and light cav 200. I've done this for every unit.

I haven't tried these values out yet. However, I'd guess LOS of 80/100 for infantry should be enough for their behavior to take your main line into account. I'll be "testing" this the rest of the day on campaign, but if anyone else would like to try, here's the link:

@statsVisibility.pack

Just use this instead of KAM's experimental, as I edited his pack directly and only changed the visibility.

These ranges you have listed for the LOS, are they comparable to the ranges of missile units? if so, that would mean a unit would not be able to see the archer unit that is firing on it. 135 arrow vs 100 Infantry LOS.

[Jatischar92]

Inspired by Krixux, I've made my own blind test. Rather than a set value of 200, I've gone ahead and doubled the visibility of every unit. This means heavy infantry have a LOS of 80, light inf have 100, heavy cav 120, and light cav 200. I've done this for every unit.

I haven't tried these values out yet. However, I'd guess LOS of 80/100 for infantry should be enough for their behavior to take your main line into account. I'll be "testing" this the rest of the day on campaign, but if anyone else would like to try, here's the link:

@statsVisibility.pack

Just use this instead of KAM's experimental, as I edited his pack directly and only changed the visibility.

I am trying to load this pack (last in order ofc) but get stuck in splash-screen, some incompatibility? Not using any other mods

[FlashHeart07]

I am trying to load this pack (last in order ofc) but get stuck in splash-screen, some incompatibility? Not using any other mods

Since it overwrites the main files in DeI it should be loaded first.

[Krixux]

Inspired by Krixux, I've made my own blind test. Rather than a set value of 200, I've gone ahead and doubled the visibility of every unit. This means heavy infantry have a LOS of 80, light inf have 100, heavy cav 120, and light cav 200. I've done this for every unit.

I haven't tried these values out yet. However, I'd guess LOS of 80/100 for infantry should be enough for their behavior to take your main line into account. I'll be "testing" this the rest of the day on campaign, but if anyone else would like to try, here's the link:

@statsVisibility.pack

Just use this instead of KAM's experimental, as I edited his pack directly and only changed the visibility.

cool very cool !
I gave values above 100 though

with vh inf lowest = 100
h inf =115
(...)
sear inf = 130 to 150
(some)...sword/elite inf = 160

missile = between 140 and 200

vh Cav = 160
v light cav = 250 (!) = those buggers are eating my slingers alive (lol)

it does the trick



ps
still looking for hidden stuff in data...
(found something ...surprise....)
my eyes are pouring from their sockets...
i'll call it a night
:p

[rjacko10]

still looking for hidden stuff in data...
(found something ...surprise....)
my eyes are pouring from their sockets...
i'll call it a night
:p

What's this... a cliff hanger?

Tune in tomorrow to find out more ...

[MagicCuboid]

Yup, as some predicted my values didn't produce great results. Enemy would still reliably play "follow the leader". I'll bump it up to your values Krix

[Butan]

Do you guys know what this table is about and if its used?
Or its obsolete and only the units spot values are used? Or a mix?

[Shaggy1973]

If the spotting distance theory helps AI to use cavalry you could go back to having slightly longer battles (although I thought they were too slow before).

The missile units weren't used too well before either

[Ritterlichvon86]

If the spotting distance theory helps AI to use cavalry you could go back to having slightly longer battles (although I thought they were too slow before).

The missile units weren't used too well before either

Sorry but this is not the point about why long battles don't work. The AI will still aggress 99% of its melee force on the getgo, never flank their missiles, and rarely ever flank a cavalry unit more than one time. Even if it keeps it in reserve, that cavalry will aggress once, and then behave much like elephants. Fight to die or aggress the next nearby unit once won.

[MagicCuboid]

Butan, that is probably a global modifier to spotting distance based on the skill the unit has! If it works the same, we might be able to release a submod that only edits that table instead of every unit in land_units haha

[Butan]

I still wonder where would spotting skill would come from. There is no scouting levels afaik, thats why I also think it might be obsolete.
Still as you said, it might be active enough so that we can put minimum/maximum values to every units individual spotting values.

[MagicCuboid]

"average_scouting" "elite_scouting" etc. is a passive skill given to units under a column in land_units. I assume the game references them, because Rome 2 invented scouting distances, but I could be wrong.

[Butan]

You're right, they must be both used.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Now what I dont understand is why they have spotting distance attributed to them in "land_units" and a scouting level attributed which gives them differents spotting distances (often much better except "not a scout").
Maybe one is "hiding strenght" and the other is "spotting strenght"? Or might be they are the same, and the best value is used, simply.
And I believe the "minimum/maximum" visibility means at what distance non-hidden units become visible with the line of sight system (combined with battle realism probably, and possibly a real-time multi check).


Might be wrong on more than one element.
Krixux should know