[New experimental stuff]More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 13.07.2015 update

[geala]

I'm still not using it although I would like because I modded the units of a certain faction, also changing units to new ones, which I would have to change manually in the pack files all the time. I will wait for more results. Will you tone down missile damage? Instead I'm using now a version of the Cinematic Combat mod (it's removed from the Net seemingly) with toned down hit chance or a version of Mester's animation battle mod with increased hit chances, because they don't change the land units files. If the enemy has some armored high tier units (like Carthage in every army) I also lose battles because most of my armies consist of medium tier units which are frequently also rather naked (the modded ones).

I'm not sure wether I like the new disband mechanic. I never ever build experience or other upgrade buildings which would make my units better at recruiting, I only use battle experience and two champions despite of the imperium level. It's a bit harsh to lose long trained units totally. Isn't it a instigation to build unit upgrade buildings?

I appreciate the huge efforts to make battles more difficult, must be so time consuming to change all the stats. However battle difficulty can be handled in different ways. Trying to get very difficult battles for players using very good armored elite units all the time (like middle to late game Roma players, frankly said also the normal later Roman units are a kind of armored elite which they also were in reality) is a very tedious task I fear. Perhaps some fantasy should be left to the player to get a satisfying experience.

[Shaggy1973]

I've played around 20 turns with this as Rome after Polybian reforms.

I think it is a huge step in the right direction, but the battles are a little too fast. Every unit is once again useful, but some units are disproportionately useful compared to cost (missiles).

I'd tone down kill rates incrementally, say:
Infantry 10%
Cavalry 15%
Missiles 20%

The morale effects seem great, sometimes flanking moves can be successful just because the morale drops, not because they kill 50 men.

I'm not sure if this is main DeI, but all the bonuses from generals/traditions/ancilliaries seem to be getting dropped (halved it seems) which is also a huge step in the right direction.

Good work

[Throwaways]

"units under 45% will auto disband after battle" This feels way too high. That way if I lose 45% of, say 6 units I lose: 165x6 990 extra units, if I have units of 300. This seems a bit rough to me, since you can't even merge them in to save the men, it's just like a 1000 extra men magically dissapeared. Other than that I like the patch and it's making the battles more exciting. Can't make a huge thin line and just outflank, need some backup troops to support where the enemy pushes through. Good work.

[Ritterlichvon86]

I've played around 20 turns with this as Rome after Polybian reforms.

I think it is a huge step in the right direction, but the battles are a little too fast. Every unit is once again useful, but some units are disproportionately useful compared to cost (missiles).

I'd tone down kill rates incrementally, say:
Infantry 10%
Cavalry 15%
Missiles 20%

The morale effects seem great, sometimes flanking moves can be successful just because the morale drops, not because they kill 50 men.

I'm not sure if this is main DeI, but all the bonuses from generals/traditions/ancilliaries seem to be getting dropped (halved it seems) which is also a huge step in the right direction.

Good work

Tuning down the killrates is exactly the thing that's not possible without nerfing the AI heavily. If anything, they'd need to become higher for the BAI to become more competitive. It's a sad fact that the BAI cannot be modded and played around with


I must say, the battles are much more interesting since the 30.01.'s update already. We need to care for our units that they don't take too many losses, or we'll go home with a pyrrhic victory. The BAI's attacks become more decisive, and battles are generally faster - but not too fast as like in Vanilla or other mods. The outcome of a battle is important again, so winning but losing 80% of your army does not give you the option anymore to just wait 3 rounds and have a full army for free again (which was so unrealistic!).

Looking very good KAM

[Philozoraptor]

Would it be possible to merge those damaged units (if there is another unit like that) instead of disbanding them? I think familiar feature is in BGR V for SS for MTW2. Though I dont know if its possible for ROME II.

[Drowsy]

Instead of disbanding, would it be possible to merge the units if they met the 45% threshold? I think Rome did this.

[Butan]

Missiles are very OP , since HP was halved but missile damage didn't come down as much. Missile damage needs to be 25-30% reduced.

I think its intended.



Also grind on walled settlement attack is normal: pathfinding/scaling/fighting 1 by 1 and defensive towers are always hell.
As MagicCuboid said be careful of how your units are behaving when on walls, they tend to forget to fight.

[zonks40]

45% disbanding is a bit high, although on the other hand, it would help the AI shake off it's early low tier units that it's armies consist of in the early game, and make room for better units in the mid game.

[KAM 2150]

I wanted it on 45% for now, because the difference is much more noticeable and hence easier to test in the campaign That is why this pack is experimental : D We test stuff

For past months it was on 35% but I noticed they often my units were down to around 80-90 guys left alive from the squad and almost never below this 35%.

Also higher disband ratio should put much more emphasis on saving elite units until vital points of battle, similar to how Romans fought So inexperienced units are expandable and therfore can fight in the first line, while elites should be left away from greatest danger until needed.

[Jin-]

Saw enemy general retreating from fight and then making the charge again, luckily my general survived those 2 charge javelin throws.

I've just came out the most frustrating hour long walled battle (attacking / using the original experimental pack). Hoplites just don't do damage when on the walls - even against archers. So depressing. I sat and watched the towers slowly obliterate my entire army. And the oil is too powerful to go through the gate.

Reason why i hate siege battles on Rome II. Be it vanilla or any mod. When men are on the walls fighting, i just put 3x time and alt tab. No casualties on both sides, or very little only because of towers. That takes always 30-59min

Would it be possible to merge those damaged units (if there is another unit like that) instead of disbanding them? I think familiar feature is in BGR V for SS for MTW2. Though I dont know if its possible for ROME II.

Ctrl + M, since Rome 1 for me ^^

[Jin-]

delete

[Butan]

Ctrl + M, since Rome 1 for me ^^

He meant replacing auto-disband post-battle by auto-merge. The disband happens before the player can do anything to his armies and the merge shows 0 ways it can be automated afaik.

[chadwicknight]

I personally don't like this, but I guess It's one opinion.

I usually role play, I mean i really enjoy taking my time, moving slowly and admiring details. This often get in contrast with high levels of game difficulties in which you have to be fast and frantic in the action to survive.

That is why I usually play on normal or easy difficulty in my games, so i can enjoy the effort of the devs instead of trying to "beat" the game. For example my playstyle in the TW series includes trying to move my troops at walking pace unless I am absolutely forced to do otherwise (with the exception of skirmishers and cavalry of course) and even trying to move them in order, sliding platoons on the sides before moving forward platoons back to them instead of just order forward and let the guys hit each other and blend with each other and so on..

So you see, this has nothing to do with the real mechanics of the battle itself, but it just adds the right flavour to my campaigns and I couldn't play without it

In R2TW and DEI i play on N/N and it seems just fine to me, even right now.

I hope you will keep this optional.

Cheers

[Ritterlichvon86]

Remember that the 45% disbanding only refers to the event of a lost battle. The victor has a much more timid rate. I guess you might want to adjust these to a more similar level, meeting somewhere in the middle. Currently I'm keeping units at @ ~20% if I have been victorious. Using the latest aStats, and checked multiple times in campaign. Maybe 30% for the victor and 40% for the loser would be an idea.

[adambomb1]

Aethye, can not find that mod Dynamic battles.

[GourmetGorilla]

Fix for arrow towers:

http://www.speedyshare.com/xWJq8/aStats.pack

Should this be used in addition to or in place of 30.01.2015?

[adambomb1]

Sounds very interesting K.

[Philozoraptor]

Remember that the 45% disbanding only refers to the event of a lost battle. The victor has a much more timid rate. I guess you might want to adjust these to a more similar level, meeting somewhere in the middle. Currently I'm keeping units at @ ~20% if I have been victorious. Using the latest aStats, and checked multiple times in campaign. Maybe 30% for the victor and 40% for the loser would be an idea.

Oh, I thought it aplies to winner aswell, my bad.

[Throwaways]

Remember that the 45% disbanding only refers to the event of a lost battle. The victor has a much more timid rate. I guess you might want to adjust these to a more similar level, meeting somewhere in the middle. Currently I'm keeping units at @ ~20% if I have been victorious. Using the latest aStats, and checked multiple times in campaign. Maybe 30% for the victor and 40% for the loser would be an idea.

Oh, well that changes everything. I take back what I said, I thought it applied to the winner, in which case it would be a bit too high. In that case I think it is a good idea. Supported

[rnesteruk]

One, simple method I was using before 1.0 was a simple mod which put 80-100 exp per turn to all ai armies. It wont solve any balance or ai issues but it simulates quite well the situation of champion training players armies. It seems to be reasonable and not ai cheat kind of stuff cuz as players we build exp giving stuff and we put champs in armies with training exp skill. With extra xp gain ai at least has the same adventage. Perhaps Kam, u could consider this simple method as global diff increase.