[New experimental stuff]More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 13.07.2015 update

[RollingWave]

i must say it is more balanced, but that's also why I can't use it when playing harder factions since I would have no fricking way of winning against better armies when I also have stronger CAI on

[Magas of Cyrene]

i must say it is more balanced, but that's also why I can't use it when playing harder factions since I would have no fricking way of winning against better armies when I also have stronger CAI on

That's exactly what you should be doing Having lots of fun with my Arche Bosphorus campaign with both mods enabled, making hardly any territorial gains (I've lost conquered cities and gotten them back several times, which is a lot of fun compared to the usual steamroll).

[RollingWave]

That's exactly what you should be doing Having lots of fun with my Arche Bosphorus campaign with both mods enabled, making hardly any territorial gains (I've lost conquered cities and gotten them back several times, which is a lot of fun compared to the usual steamroll).

Yeah, but the Greek faction it's possible to some extend, I'm playing Odrissian which is god damn impossible if I don't have 180 range slingers

[RollingWave]

On run speed of units

I feel the difference between lighter and heavier unit's run speed is very hard to notice, I know that realistically in short sprints the difference isn't THAT much if it's 1 person vs 1 person, but because realistically in history heavy units have to stay IN FORMATION which made them running at high speed almost impossible, where as light units often ran faster simply because they more or less broke formation, I know there's limit to engine that make this not entirely possible, but could simply be represented by light skrimish foot units running faster in general. I feel the horse relative to human run speed is way too much at this point, yes horses theoretically run much faster but in practice it's not like that. especially in antiquity where if a horse really went full gallop the riders would have a very hard time just staying mounted, let alone say.. throw javelins and aim a lance at someone. (this is major reason why chariots remain in use to some extend in certain places.) for heavy horse it's even more so, cataphract style horses probably should run SLOWER than light infantry.

[Goffredo85]

Kam when do you paln to work on aor, garrison and merc units?
On a side note, did you nerf cities' towers in the end? They seem like machineguns right now...

[KAM 2150]

Cav can't be faster then infantry, even the light one for few reasons. First one, even fully armoured cataphract will still outrun Usain Bolt, who trained all life and does not need to carry weapon, shield or ammo with him. Secondly, if infantry would outrun cavalry then battles might never end as AI skirmishers will simply constantly run away due to premanent skirmisher mode on. Thirdly, light infantry can't outrun other infantry a lot, because it will bring us what we have in Attila, your missile infantry units outrun all infantry units and basically are the deadliest units since they will be able to fire at enemy units even while chased, plus again, battles might end up with 10-20 minute chase after single skirmisher squad.

[Alexandre Lange]

Suggestion for some tests, KAM, if you want to try more pronuciated run speed differences between light and heavy infantry but don't want to make light infantry untouchable: make light infantry run significantly faster than heavy infantry, but make charge speed of heavy infantry almost the same than light infantry (I have exposed some reasons at BDR thread, but it is not relevant here), and increase charge_distance_adopt_charge_pose. That way light infantry can generaly move faster, but the heavy ones can use the charge sprint to reach them if they don't manage to maintain a safe distance (I use charge_distance_adopt_charge_pose = 50 at BDR, so this is a real concern, and it's not easy to deal with it in the heat of the battle). Works very well. Don't hurt to give it a try, I think.

[spartan117]

Are fire arrows making a return? Besides their effect on land battles, these arrows can wreak havoc at sea. Probably too much damage. It really was easy to light any ship on fire, making the most dangerous ships of all simple archer ships. I hope the time needed to ignite a ship would be decreased. Is there going to be adjustments to naval battles?

[KAM 2150]

Actually it is almost impossible to ignite a ship with fire arrows. But fire arrows will make a return.

[Ivan_Moscavich]

Actually it is almost impossible to ignite a ship with fire arrows. But fire arrows will make a return.

My ships get lit on fire from only a handful of volleys of fire arrows from numidian archers when I'm fighting Carthage at sea as Rome, to the point I consider them the most dangerous ship I can possibly face, with the most dangerous being plain transport ships with any archer on them.

Edit: That of course is without the astats.pack. Did you test fire arrows with the reduced over all missile weapon damage? Perhaps the across the board reduction would make it take far longer to set a ship on fire.

[spartan117]

Actually it is almost impossible to ignite a ship with fire arrows. But fire arrows will make a return.

lololol

I just read what I wrote. I meant in the default DEI it was very easy to ignite ships. Sorry about that.

[RollingWave]

I think he means real life, the naval overhaul submod has made normal ship much harder to ignite, though transports are still very easy.

[Ivan_Moscavich]

I think he means real life, the naval overhaul submod has made normal ship much harder to ignite, though transports are still very easy.

Well that'd be nice when we get it then. Because right now if I see a ship with archers on it, my first thought is, "I better kill that before my entire navy is set on fire."

[az879]

On the subject of projectile trajectories, I don't knowif it has been mentioned but using 'high' causes archers not to fire when onships (as well as on walls). I recommend therefore using ‘fixed’ with an angleof 45. This works similar as ‘high’ but allows for fire from ships and walls.45 degrees should also be enough to fire at hills.

[Izay]

On the subject of projectile trajectories, I don't knowif it has been mentioned but using 'high' causes archers not to fire when onships (as well as on walls). I recommend therefore using ‘fixed’ with an angleof 45. This works similar as ‘high’ but allows for fire from ships and walls.45 degrees should also be enough to fire at hills.

If KAM were to take that approach, I would strongly advice him to reduce the accuracy of achers. I tried using 'high' and my archers became waay too overpowered when compared to slingers.

[az879]

If KAM were to take that approach, I would strongly advice him to reduce the accuracy of achers. I tried using 'high' and my archers became waay too overpowered when compared to slingers.

Maybe slingers should get a fixed trajectory too. I have already changed the javelins trajectory to 'fixed' in my pack, they look much better.

[Butan]

Fixed = always fire at max elevation, right?

And low or high = can shoot below and above max elevation with a certain tolerance (someone knows the exact "tolerance" value of both?)

[geala]

How does R2TW calculate defense against projectiles? When units raise their shields, do they really deflect projectiles from above? If not, and the defense is calculated fix according to shield size than a higher angle could throw balance out of the window. A further problem for me is the generalized armor. If a unit is in melee combat and not able to raise the shields it should be of the greatest importance wether and what helmets were used by the unit. But it is not afaik.

[Butan]

Some were saying that projectiles coming from above didnt take into account shield.

What I know is that different shield type can add : armour, melee defense, and projectile block; and all those values can be edited to one's liking for each shield type.

[geala]

Where is projectile block located? And when we are at it: although I use KAM's pack, I ask myself wether the combat system can really deal with the absence of shield armour. Shield armour is stupid and not existing in reality but is it possble to get rid of it entirely without diminishing the tactical worth of shields too much?