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Thread: [New experimental stuff]More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 13.07.2015 update

  1. #221
    FlashHeart07's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 08.02.2015

    Quote Originally Posted by khaled ibn alwaleed View Post
    thanks kam you are genus the game now is more challenging
    sorry but i have confused which one should i use your mode or (battle dynamics reworked submode) and whats the difference between both?
    They are not compatible but I would suggest this one since the implemented spotting submod is included and this really improves the BAI

  2. #222

    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 08.02.2015

    Quote Originally Posted by FlashHeart07 View Post
    They are not compatible but I would suggest this one since the implemented spotting submod is included and this really improves the BAI
    thanks as you suggest.

  3. #223

    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 08.02.2015

    I have had hopilites completely surrounded, the "attacked in the rear message" showing, and it'll still take minutes to make them route / die off.

    I have made a cup o soup once waiting for them to be crushed.

    Maybe the penalty from the rear / side needs a bit more damage?

  4. #224

    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 08.02.2015

    Sometimes the morale debuff isnt enough and if you attack with low attack units the hoplites are still able to hold a long time even attacked in the flank/rear.

  5. #225

    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 08.02.2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Butan View Post
    Sometimes the morale debuff isnt enough and if you attack with low attack units the hoplites are still able to hold a long time even attacked in the flank/rear.
    Last battle it was Legionaires that were surrounding.

  6. #226

    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 08.02.2015

    Alright time to test this in a new campaign, will see if the battles overall feel very different on H/N difficulty.

  7. #227

    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 08.02.2015

    Quote Originally Posted by BooBooLovesAll View Post
    Last battle it was Legionaires that were surrounding.
    And what were the hoplites exactly?

  8. #228

    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 08.02.2015

    What exactly makes cavalry take more losses during pullback? I want to know to adjust the number to fit my taste.

  9. #229
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 08.02.2015

    Lower HP point or bigger bonus vs cavalry. But if you add bonus vs cavalry to non spear uunits it will make AI cav avoind attacking infantry.
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  10. #230

    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 08.02.2015

    Quote Originally Posted by Butan View Post
    And what were the hoplites exactly?
    Sheeplishly, I don't remember.

  11. #231

    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 08.02.2015

    Because some elite hoplites are tough nuts to crack whatever the angle.
    The fact that big defense often comes with big armour + big morale (because of said elite status) can cause a lot of stupid scenarios like that...

    But those elite hoplites are rare and easy to spot, it would be strange if you didnt recognize them.
    And legionaires should be enough to put hoplites in a tight spot.


    Maybe KAM can confirm or not, but doesnt attacking an hoplite phalanx on the rear/flank gives a big bonus only in the first moment of melees, then even keeping phalanx bonus the flank/rear turns and fights the flankers?

  12. #232
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 09.02.2015

    Honestly, sometimes it works, sometimes it won't work.

    Download link updated with minor fixes, mostly some OP units here and there.
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  13. #233

    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 09.02.2015

    Kam, I want to try it but the website speedyshare is blocked in my country and when I try to use a VPN it tries to download the pack for endless time like 2 hours then give me a failer message. Can you upload it any were else!

    Thanks a lot for your efforts man!

  14. #234
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 09.02.2015

    I finally modded my changed units into your new tables to use it. It is a nice alternative to normal Die and I will keep it. I use it with a different kv_rules_table with higher melee hit chance and more matched combat to see gory moves.

    A few questions:
    I have the feeling that the soldiers are moving faster but I cannot see a difference to the normal DeI battle_entities_table. Is it just imagination or are there changes elsewhere?

    Missile damage was much too high for me, I prefer to suffer from too easy battles instead of too unrealistic unit behavior. After I watched a unit of heavy hoplites being reduced to zero by a slinger unit with ease from the front from one hundred metres I changed the projectiles to lower damage. They have still more damage than in vanilla DeI compared to the soldiers hp.

    "- missile units are more deadly frontally (altough their damage was lowered)" How do you achieve this? I cannot only be a change in the projectiles_tables. Or can it?

  15. #235

    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 09.02.2015

    I have no idea how people produce such results about "OP missiles". They honestly feel very right to me at the moment. Slingers, especially in groups, can do significant damage frontally only against very low armour enemies, and the damage is sustained, it takes quite a few volleys from like 3 groups to get them below half unit size. Against well armoured enemies frontally, they're no use for killing power, though you can put a dent on their HP, it's not very efficient. From the sides or back, however, they can do work over time. But that's it, over some time, it's not burst damage that will kill off a unit in seconds. It's fine imo.

  16. #236
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 09.02.2015

    HP points were reduced by half pretty much, but ranged damage wasn't reduced by half.


    Akhenation, here you go buddy:

    https://www.mediafire.com/?4hvxmqiqs93xkhz

    I won't be modding till weekend, but I have big update on my mind concerning shield values and missile weapons in general.
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  17. #237
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 09.02.2015

    Quote Originally Posted by HarkonRules View Post
    I have no idea how people produce such results about "OP missiles". They honestly feel very right to me at the moment. Slingers, especially in groups, can do significant damage frontally only against very low armour enemies, and the damage is sustained, it takes quite a few volleys from like 3 groups to get them below half unit size. Against well armoured enemies frontally, they're no use for killing power, though you can put a dent on their HP, it's not very efficient. From the sides or back, however, they can do work over time. But that's it, over some time, it's not burst damage that will kill off a unit in seconds. It's fine imo.
    I have other experience. It was a well defined situation, I had one unit left (Perioikoi or Metoikoi hoplites, don't remember but both are similar), the enemy two slinger units, one normal Greek, one Rhodian. My hoplites were in a fort idling, the enemies outside out of range of the towers. I thought, sh..., now I have to chase the slingers around or wait for victory, but it wasn't necessary because my unit was reduced from green to red in less than a minute. From the front. I could deal with it if the hoplites were occupierd fighting but their only task was to hunker down behind their shields. In reality it would have been some dents on the aspides and a few casualties due to concussions on the side of the hoplites, not total annihilation.

    Even after my toning down of projectile damage I restrict myself to a maximum of 2-3 missile units in my armies, they inflict too many casualties otherwise.
    Last edited by geala; February 09, 2015 at 05:45 AM.

  18. #238
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 09.02.2015

    Rhodians on par with Balearic slingers are probably 2nd or even best ranged unit.
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  19. #239
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 09.02.2015

    Yep, indeed, but how experienced and trained a slinger was, he could not really hurt a hoplite with shield, helmet and greaves. The Rhodians in addition use lead shot and the average sling lead projectile weighted about 30 to 50 g, and more in the 30 g range. No chance to destroy an aspis with it. Unlike perhaps the Balearic slingers who allegedly wielded at Eknomos such heavy stones (1 mnai) that they were able to destroy shields. I think the Rhodians were extremely good shots and could hit unprotected spots, but there is no unprotected spot if you as hoplite only have to protect against missiles.

    Is it possible to discriminate the protection against missiles between a unit in melee fight and one not engaged?

    Edit: I gave slingers 9, 10 and 11 damage and 130 metres to stones and left the 180 metres for lead. And they still get incredible amounts of kills.
    Last edited by geala; February 09, 2015 at 07:15 AM.

  20. #240
    KAM 2150's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: [Experimental] More challenging, BAI friendly battles - 09.02.2015

    And that is why I wrote then later this week I will make major changes to missile units : )

    I am thinking about completly taking out AP damage from ranged weapons and put more emphasis on those penetration attributes.
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