Re: [WIP] Colonies & Empires: a New World mod
I personally would love to hear more about it all- the city states, the native names, etc.- and have all the data in the game in some form or another. The more detail that you put into the factions (accurate unit descriptions, settlement names, longer building histories), the better. It seems you have so much knowledge here as a team on a historical subject that is rarely talked about (as we can all see from the vanilla game), and it would be so refreshing if this mod were able to add all of these details in.Originally Posted by UchihaMadara21
I really like the concept here. You are one of the few people in this forum who actually understand the issue about the 'names". In the case of the Purépechas of northern Mexico, the title of Tarascos/Tarascans is considered very offensive. I can't believe how CA didn't paid attention to this; it's almost like they just searched it up on Google and used the first name they've found.
About the Chichimecah, the main issue is that this title is not concise. Many historians believe that it was the Mexica and other peoples who called them that way because of their pratices and culture. The word Chichimecatl (singular) has a variety of possible meanings, but the most accepted are "Inhabitant of Chichiman" (The Land of the Milk) and "One Who drinks Milk". For uncertain reasons, this term was often used to describe nomadic, hunter-gatherer people considered "uncivilized" or "barbarian". The point is that there were many ethnic groups called Chichimecah, and the Otomitl/Otomí and Zacatecatl/Zacatecos, who lived in central Mexico, were the main ones. Here's a map regarding the most prominent Chichimeca groups inhabiting the valley at that time (although it's from 1550, the situation was basically the same in Pre-Conquest periods):
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
So, my idea is that instead of a single playable faction, you could make the regions of Zacatecatl and Otomitl as heavily garrisoned "rebel" villages/towns with the title of Altepetl (which means city-state, town, village, etc) followed by the name of the local communities. For example, the hypothetical hometown of the Zacatecos could be called Altepetl Zacatlan.
Armies of these ethnic groups should be recruitable at the entire region of Central Mexico (including at territories of the Mexica, Tlaxcalans and even Spanish), as Area of Recruitment units and mercenaries. Historically, the main advantage of the Chichimecas, Purépechas and Tlaxcalans over the Mexica were their expert use of the bow. It's registered that the army of Mexica emperor Axayacatl was completely destroyed only by a number of archers hired by the Purépecha Empire, who kept firing on their enemies from the walls of their capital, finishing the battle with a ferocious charge. Judging by that, it shouldn't be easy to conquer these "rebel" Chichimeca settlements, since the garrison armies would be filled with skilled archers who were also formidable hand-to-hand combatants (a real unique trait). The same logic would be applied to the Purepechas and the Tlaxcalans.
Also, it would be interesting to point out that important cities in the New World (Mexico and the Andes, for the most part) had flags or emblems representing the local aristocracy, their families or even the symbolism/etimology of the city itself. The Lordship of Tlaxcala/Tlahtoloyan Tlaxcallan (this is how Tlaxcala as a faction should be called in-game - there wasn't a City-State named Tlaxcala, it was a province), a "confederation" formed by the lords of Ocotelolco, Quiahuiztlan, Tepeticpac and Tizatlan, had four distinct flags representing each city/lord. The Triple Alliance, composed by Tenochtitlan, Texcoco and Tlacopan, also followed the same system.
Mods like Stainless Steel have a script that automatically gives the title of "Duke" (a trait/retinue which offer unique advantages) to family members governing a certain settlement. Something like that would fit the political organization of the New World in a very convincing manner. I have most of the desings of these emblems stored in my computer as a resource for old projects.
Haha, looks like you were able to read my username! I must confess that the only reason I have this as my username is because I decided to finally make a twcenter account (after ~9 years of lurking) and Google translate had recently added a few more languages to their translate options. I have absolutely no Welsh blood in me at all.I know what you mean. I've thought a bit about it as well.
I feel that the vanilla-style shields are a quintessential factor of the "feel" of the vanilla game. The vanilla game is what inspired this mod above all else, so keeping them is kind of a small tribute to that.
Another point is that the concept or heraldry didn't exist in the Americas in the same way it did in Europe, so whatever shape I choose isn't going to suit anybody. The reason I kind of like the vanilla-style shields is that this mod is essentially about an enormous, simultaneous invasion of the New World, by the Old World. Yes, Native Americans would absolutely never "use" shields like these ones, but my point is that the Europeans forced their culture onto the Americans, and the shields are "symbolic" of that (if you'll humour my reasoning).
Don't get me wrong, though, I would definitely consider changing them, especially if someone with greater skills than my own came on board.
I was going to keep these under wraps for a while, but tell me what you honestly think of these - my very first attempts at Inca and Muisca shields.
Absolutely. Like I alluded to in my previous post, I would like Colonies & Empires to become a base upon which other, more historical mods are created. A pre-Columbian mod would surely be a massive undertaking, and I'm not sure how much I would be able to contribute to it myself, but it would certainly be an awesome achievement by whomever makes it, as it has never been done before to my knowledge. Not as a mod, or even in another game series, if I'm not mistaken. A lot of research would be required, and a lot of imagination too, to fill-in the many gaps in history.
Such a game would not have vanilla-style shields, too.
Yes, I too found it absurd that they named them the Tarascans when I found out it is a derogative! It took me 10 minutes of reading about the "Tarascans" to learn that wasn't even their name! Whoever the historical researcher for the Americas campaign was ought to be fired.
I understand what you're getting at with the city-state concept, and it is a good idea. I still intend to include the "Chichimeca", or more likely, the Zacatecos, in-game. The fact that we don't know what they called themselves is unfortunate, but if worse-comes-to-worse the Nahuatl name will suffice. It won't be so easier for them to dominate their neighbouring tribes. I do lack some information as to place names and locations to the east of Zacatlan and north of the Valley of Mexico. If you have any information on that I would greatly appreciate it!
I like the ancillary idea for city emblems as well. When the time comes I'll speak with you further on them.
Anyway, looks like you really know your stuff. I like the thought of making an even more historically accurate sub-mod after this one, although your base mod already is far more accurate than any other official attempt out there. I'm hoping to see some more pleasant surprises in thee future!
