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  1. #1
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    Default Israel: Woopsy, "Technical Errors" you know...

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15635159/

    Olmert calls Gaza strike a 'technical error'
    Thousands mourn 18 civilians whose homes were struck by errant shells


    BEIT HANOUN, Gaza Strip - Tens of thousands of grieving Gazans, weeping in anguish and screaming for revenge, crammed into a cemetery Thursday to bury 18 civilians killed by an errant Israeli artillery barrage that tore through a crowded residential neighborhood.

    The emotional throngs reached toward the sky or collapsed in grief as a despondent father carried the lifeless body of his 1-year-old baby in his arms. About 20 gunmen fired sporadically into the air, and many mourners waved the yellow flags of Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas’ Fatah party.

    The cemetery, which had been under construction, was hastily opened to accommodate the victims because others in town were too small to allow them to be buried together. All belonged to a single extended family.

    ‘I will avenge!’
    The bodies arrived in a convoy of 18 ambulances, which brought them from hospital morgues through the artillery-scarred cluster of apartment buildings. Cries of “God is greater than Israel and America,” punctuated by gunshots, rang out as the bodies were brought out on stretchers.

    “I will avenge, I will avenge!” screamed one of the victims’ relatives as he fired his weapon, voicing a common sentiment among the mourners.

    “The Zionist enemy understands only the language of force and therefore I say, ’an eye for an eye, a nose for a nose,”’ chanted Abdel al-Hakim Awad, a Fatah spokesman. “The residents of Sderot, the residents of Ashkelon, even the residents of Tel Aviv, are not going to enjoy security or peace as long as you are suffering, our beloved people in Beit Hanoun.”

    The freshly dug graves were lined up in a single row, each marked by a concrete block. A Palestinian flag fluttered over each. Two Israeli unmanned aircraft buzzed overhead.

    Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert expressed regret for the loss of life but said Israeli operations in Gaza would continue as long as Palestinians fire rockets at Israel. He said a “technical error” caused the shells to miss their targets. He said Israel would try to ensure such mistakes would not recur but admitted, “It may happen.”

    Fears of new bloodshed
    Beit Hanoun has been the focus of a weeklong Israeli offensive meant to halt rocket attacks on southern Israel. Wednesday’s deadly shelling came 24 hours after Israeli ground forces pulled out of Beit Hanoun. The bloodshed, and calls for revenge by militant groups, have raised fears of a new wave of fighting with Israel.

    The shells landed as residents were still asleep, and witnesses said many were killed as they fled their homes in panic. The bombardment was the deadliest on Palestinian civilians in the past six years of fighting, and undermined Abbas’s attempts to form a more moderate government and renew peace talks with Israel.

    All of the dead belonged to a prominent family in town that includes several doctors and professionals. Relatives said they had fled during the recent Israeli offensive, returning home after Tuesday’s pullout.

    Israeli military officials said the artillery was aimed at a target about 500 yards away. A top commander said artillery aiming devices had malfunctioned, though a formal investigation was still under way.

    Streets empty amid mourning
    All activity in Beit Hanoun was focused on the funerals. Ordinarily, on a Thursday morning, the town’s streets are teeming with people. In the hours before the funeral, the streets were all but deserted.

    A three-day mourning period declared by Palestinian leaders kept shops closed.

    Khadra Abu Shabat, 55, said sadness mingled with worry on an emotionally charged day.

    “All of us are feeling sad, and worried, too,” said Abu Shabat, tears streaming down her face. “We are going to bury this family and ask ourselves, ’Who’s next? Me? My grandchildren? My neighbor?”’

    The bloodshed provoked Palestinian threats of a new wave of violence. Khaled Mashaal, the exiled leader of the Palestinians’ ruling Hamas group, canceled a cease-fire with Israel that has largely held since February 2005, raising the specter of renewed suicide bombings.

    Hamas calls for new attacks
    Hamas’ military wing also called for attacks against U.S. targets — an appeal that Hamas political leaders in Gaza did not endorse. President Bush called for restraint on all sides Wednesday.

    Abbas talked by phone to the Damascus-based overall Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal, their first conversation in months, Palestinian officials said, in a sign that the two sides are close to forming a joint government after months of negotiations.

    Abbas called Mashaal at the urging of advisers who realized that progress could not be made without dealing with the Hamas leader, officials said.

    Earlier, Abbas condemned the “terrible, despicable crime” of the Israeli shelling, and the international community harshly criticized the deaths.

    The U.N. Security Council was to meet in special session later Thursday. Palestinians hoped for a condemnation of Israel, on top of the denunciations Israel absorbed from governments worldwide after the attack.

    Israeli police, fearing revenge attacks, stepped up their alert level, mobilizing forces across the country.

    The 18 dead was the highest Palestinian civilian toll in a single incident since the current conflict erupted in September 2000. The highest toll of Israelis was 29 killed in a Palestinian suicide bombing at a Passover gathering in March 2002.

    Hopefully the Hamas will avenge this soon and add some balance to the kill ratios.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Israel: Woopsy, "Technical Errors" you know...

    This was a mistake, what did you expect olmert to say? "were sorry we have ****** cannons"?
    "Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you may still exist, but you have ceased to live." - Mark Twain

    "I am against nature. I don't dig nature at all. I think nature is very unnatural. I think the truly natural things are dreams, which nature can't touch with decay." - Bob Dylan

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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Israel: Woopsy, "Technical Errors" you know...

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Lame Sister
    This was a mistake, what did you expect olmert to say? "were sorry we have ****** cannons"?
    Yeah sure it was a mistake.

    If a Palestinian aimed a few rockets at an Israeli base and one strayed and killed an Israeli family you would be okay with this and not want retribution?

    I could care less if this was a mistake or not. Palestinians died and any self-respecting and proud people would take seek retribution. Israel demolished half of Lebanon because 2 of its soldiers were kidnapped. Why do we ask the Hamas to act differently?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Israel: Woopsy, "Technical Errors" you know...

    Quote Originally Posted by mirage41
    If a Palestinian aimed a few rockets at an Israeli base and one strayed and killed an Israeli family you would be okay with this and not want retribution?

    I've been at Sderot, theres no military bases there, sorry.
    I think they might've added some due to recent events but you can't possibly be stupid enough to think a few watch towers are important enough to be bombed for a month. And you can't possibly believe Palestinians would kept shooting inaccurate rockets on a bunch of small watch towers when they know they're hitting schools and hospitals instead :/

    The avengence your so eager to see from the Palestinian side is what started and starting this all conflict.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Israel: Woopsy, "Technical Errors" you know...

    Using field guns to shoot at a precise target is not exactly the best idea in the world... especially if your crew is too stupid to use the equipment.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Israel: Woopsy, "Technical Errors" you know...

    When ameican airplanes bombed british soldiers (on accident),the british didn't declare war on america. nations are not suppose to declare wars over accidents.
    "Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you may still exist, but you have ceased to live." - Mark Twain

    "I am against nature. I don't dig nature at all. I think nature is very unnatural. I think the truly natural things are dreams, which nature can't touch with decay." - Bob Dylan

    "Faith in God means believing, absolutely, in something with no proof whatsoever. Faith in humanity means believing, absolutely, in something with a huge amount of proof to the contrary. WE are the true believers." - Joss Whedon

  7. #7

    Default Re: Israel: Woopsy, "Technical Errors" you know...

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Lame Sister
    When ameican airplanes bombed british soldiers (on accident),the british didn't declare war on america. nations are not suppose to declare wars over accidents.
    Well some accidents can be avoided... well most can be avoided. But when you are in a large combat zone with so much logistics moving about accidents do happen. Especially when you have air crews or weapon operators that are not up to the task. In this day and age it is possible to make sure you hit the target using precise munitions and guided weapons. An artillery strike is not a precise art, and should never be used when close to a civilian population. I think this was a bad call by Israel, and maybe even on purpose, I don;t understand why in the hell they would use artillery if they had a precise target in mind. It makes no sense.

  8. #8
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Default Re: Israel: Woopsy, "Technical Errors" you know...

    Quote Originally Posted by mirage41
    Hopefully the Hamas will avenge this soon and add some balance to the kill ratios.
    an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind...

    if Israel keeps on having these "technical errors" and Palestinians don't go all suicide bomber, then Israel will have to back off.
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  9. #9

    Default Re: Israel: Woopsy, "Technical Errors" you know...

    Israel will have to back off?! this whole thing started when the palestinians started firing rockets on israeli cities on a daily basis!
    "Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone, you may still exist, but you have ceased to live." - Mark Twain

    "I am against nature. I don't dig nature at all. I think nature is very unnatural. I think the truly natural things are dreams, which nature can't touch with decay." - Bob Dylan

    "Faith in God means believing, absolutely, in something with no proof whatsoever. Faith in humanity means believing, absolutely, in something with a huge amount of proof to the contrary. WE are the true believers." - Joss Whedon

  10. #10
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Default Re: Israel: Woopsy, "Technical Errors" you know...

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Lame Sister
    Israel will have to back off?! this whole thing started when the palestinians started firing rockets on israeli cities on a daily basis!

    That's why I said if the Palestinians didn't retaliate.
    house of Rububula, under the patronage of Nihil, patron of Hotspur, David Deas, Freddie, Askthepizzaguy and Ketchfoop
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Israel: Woopsy, "Technical Errors" you know...

    That's why I said if the Palestinians didn't retaliate.
    Well, they won't retaliate if they're unable to. Vengeance is a human (yet not a functional) choice.
    But I don't think it makes any difference.
    Older guy on TWC.
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    Default Re: Israel: Woopsy, "Technical Errors" you know...

    Quote Originally Posted by sephodwyrm
    But I don't think it makes any difference.
    It makes an enormous difference. Hamas terrorist attacks on Israel, however repulsive they may be, have contributed more towards Palestinian independence than not. Without the Hamas the Israelis would still have continue trying to build more settlements in the west bank and probably still be patrolling the streets of Gaza. Terrorism works in regional and a-symetric conflicts like these. Hamas has made Israelis dash all dreams of "Eretz Israel" to the point that they are building a giant wall around themselves.

    When Hamas kills Israeli civilians it's essentially a way of trying to equalizing the kill ratio. This is important because suicide attacks are potent reminder to every Israeli that there is a clear cost to their gov't occupation of Palestinian land and they are not gonna get away with killing those worthless Arabs. Basically it provides consequence to Israeli actions in the occupied territories.

    I don't like this stuff, I don't think its right to bomb a cafe full of civilians. But sometimes its the only realistic way of responding to Israeli atrocities in manner that will make a difference. And it has.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Israel: Woopsy, "Technical Errors" you know...

    I could make a comment about how cross eyed the global media and politicians are when it comes to "mistakes" committed by Israel but I'd surely be called a racist/fascist/nazi/take-your-pick.
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    sephodwyrm's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Israel: Woopsy, "Technical Errors" you know...

    Terrorism works in regional and a-symetric conflicts like these. Hamas has made Israelis dash all dreams of "Eretz Israel" to the point that they are building a giant wall around themselves.
    So you are justifying total war?
    I find total war impossible to justify.
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    Default Re: Israel: Woopsy, "Technical Errors" you know...

    Quote Originally Posted by sephodwyrm
    So you are justifying total war?
    I find total war impossible to justify.
    I'm not justifying anything. When a belligerent power is in your lands building colonies, killing you people and arresting and trying people when they have no jurisdiction there then you have a few choices:

    1) Fight back
    2) Don't fight back

    If you choose 1) then you have to use whatever means you have available. If the Palestinians had better more modern means of militarily retaliating for Israeli deeds then I'm sure they would use them.

    Total war is a fact. As a RTW quote once said "Law are silent at times of war". This has always been the case. The fact of the matter is that you have to do rather nasty things and make real sacrificed if you want to be free. Like the Americans say "Freedom isn't Free". And the Palestinians have learned this first hand.

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    Default Re: Israel: Woopsy, "Technical Errors" you know...

    So you are saying that choice 2 is impossible?
    I know about the infamous absentee law in Israel that allows the confistication of porpperty belonging to absent Palestinians. But are you sure property is justification for war?
    Last edited by sephodwyrm; November 09, 2006 at 04:30 PM.
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    Default Re: Israel: Woopsy, "Technical Errors" you know...

    Quote Originally Posted by sephodwyrm
    So you are saying that choice 2 is impossible?
    I know about the infamous absentee law in Israel that allows the confistication of porpperty belonging to absent Palestinians. But this is not permanent.
    Choice 2 is possible if you want share the same fate as native americans and the aborigines.

    The absentee law was used within Israel (pre-1967 borders) to basically give a sense of legality to the ethnic cleansing of over 700,000 Palestinians in 1948. It doesn't have much to do with the current palestinian lands - or whatever remains of them.
    Last edited by Miraj; November 09, 2006 at 04:41 PM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Israel: Woopsy, "Technical Errors" you know...

    Quote Originally Posted by mirage41
    Hopefully the Hamas will avenge this soon and add some balance to the kill ratios.
    I can only disagree with you there. If the Hamas attacks civilians as a revenge they are no better. They should keep to military targets. And if they do that, the will get the world's opinion on their side.
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    Default Re: Israel: Woopsy, "Technical Errors" you know...

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenris
    I can only disagree with you there. If the Hamas attacks civilians as a revenge they are no better. They should keep to military targets. And if they do that, the will get the world's opinion on their side.
    Of course they are no better, its because we are humans. If Hamas could attack military targets then I'm sure they would, but this isn't even remotely symmetrical warfare.

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    sephodwyrm's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Israel: Woopsy, "Technical Errors" you know...

    So how about we do it the neo-kon style?
    Just claim Hamas or Hizballah inflicted civilian casualty as unfortunate but nonetheless necessary collateral?
    Older guy on TWC.
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