Curial Inclusiveness

[Geronimo2006]

I humbly disagree with this concept. Difference does not imply superiority/inferiority. Everyone brings something to the table whether modding or creative writing.

[mishkin]

I humbly disagree with this concept. Difference does not imply superiority/inferiority. Everyone brings something to the table whether modding or creative writing.

I think this proposal is for more differences (more skills will be recognized), not for a greater homogenization.

[PikeStance]

I humbly disagree with this concept. Difference does not imply superiority/inferiority. Everyone brings something to the table whether modding or creative writing.

I think this proposal is for more differences (more skills will be recognized), not for a greater homogenization.

Just to elaborate. the proposal allows for greater recognition that can be as specific as we deemed necessary. The current situation only recognizes two forms of contribution; Artifex (specific to modding only) and Civitates (in which writitng and debating is lumped into one). The badge "citizen" is for every one and for doing nothing specific or whatever is not covered in the first two. In order to recognize everyone who brings something to TWC, then we would have to make several badges, which is not very practical. The proposal gives more flexibility and the ability to more easily recognized specific contributions.

[Ngugi]

Thanks
I'm in support for such a solution, whatever the additional lables become

[GrnEyedDvl]

Just to be clear here, the text under your name is also tied to a user group which is problematic. I don't want to add 20 new user groups to cover stuff like this.

This is why Squid mentioned a possible custom profile field (selectable only by Citizens) and I mentioned a different way to do it with a new plugin. If we had 20 custom profile fields, and people could select the ones that apply to them and display multiples. The way I am reading how Squid proposed this is that then Civitate and Artifex badges would go away and everyone would be a Citizen with multiple other options showing below that, either images or text.

[Halie Satanus]

I still think we'd be throwing the baby out.....

There was a phrase which caught on for awhile around here, as they do now and then. 'Kicking the hive' back then it referred to upsetting the curia with changes to policy and procedures, as I recall, removing curial votes on staff members was the big issue of the day. The point being we [the curia] have a happy relationship with the modding community and have had for a long time now. So why kick the hive?

A solution that converts Artifex/Civitate to a medal with another medal for 'other' services and a single citizen badge just feels like it gets what Squid is proposing while still paying respect to the two groups who contribute the most to the site.

EG: Tribulis - Fellow Tribesman - Everyman.

You would still apply for citizenship as per normal. Citizenship would also confer a medal [Artifex/Civitate/Tribulis]. Or you apply for a medal which confers citizenship. Medals have the 'Issue Reason' which can be tailored to the individual. You have been awarded this medal for eg: coding, mapping, travel information, historical research, gaming advice, relationship advice, recipes, political debate, ect ect...

Wouldn't that provide the same thing without new plugins or major changes to how things work now?

Also, lets say we work out 20 different titles to cover as many possible contributions as we can think of and then someone comes along and submits an awe inspiring thesis on potholing. They are put forward for citizenship but we don't have a category that fits. Sorry to go into the 'what if's,' but given the huge scope of contributions I think we're always going to be faced with citizenship not quite recognising someone.

In addition, and this just occurred to me so I haven't thought it through. Citzenship could be granted without the contribution requirements on a temporary basis to anyone wishing to use the Forum Magnum. Long term, that could prove the tool that finally opens the FM to wider use, it gives incentive to use it and provides a foot up in gaining citizenship.

[Aikanár]

I still think we'd be throwing the baby out.....

There was a phrase which caught on for awhile around here, as they do now and then. 'Kicking the hive' back then it referred to upsetting the curia with changes to policy and procedures, as I recall, removing curial votes on staff members was the big issue of the day. The point being we [the curia] have a happy relationship with the modding community and have had for a long time now. So why kick the hive?

A solution that converts Artifex/Civitate to a medal with another medal for 'other' services and a single citizen badge just feels like it gets what Squid is proposing while still paying respect to the two groups who contribute the most to the site.

EG: Tribulis - Fellow Tribesman - Everyman.

You would still apply for citizenship as per normal. Citizenship would also confer a medal [Artifex/Civitate/Tribulis]. Or you apply for a medal which confers citizenship. Medals have the 'Issue Reason' which can be tailored to the individual. You have been awarded this medal for eg: coding, mapping, travel information, historical research, gaming advice, relationship advice, recipes, political debate, ect ect...

Wouldn't that provide the same thing without new plugins or major changes to how things work now?

I don't like making citizenship a medal. And that's where the discussion ends for me to be honest.

Also, lets say we work out 20 different titles to cover as many possible contributions as we can think of and then someone comes along and submits an awe inspiring thesis on potholing. They are put forward for citizenship but we don't have a category that fits. Sorry to go into the 'what if's,' but given the huge scope of contributions I think we're always going to be faced with citizenship not quite recognising someone.

Immaterial I think, nobody will write into the constitution that one must fit into pre-existing categories.

In addition, and this just occurred to me so I haven't thought it through. Citzenship could be granted without the contribution requirements on a temporary basis to anyone wishing to use the Forum Magnum. Long term, that could prove the tool that finally opens the FM to wider use, it gives incentive to use it and provides a foot up in gaining citizenship.

Not needed, since every full member can already make use of the forum magnum main and has the constitutional right to ask for a subforum to be created for him to see a project of his through.

[Flinn]

Just to be clear here, the text under your name is also tied to a user group which is problematic. I don't want to add 20 new user groups to cover stuff like this.

This is why Squid mentioned a possible custom profile field (selectable only by Citizens) and I mentioned a different way to do it with a new plugin. If we had 20 custom profile fields, and people could select the ones that apply to them and display multiples. The way I am reading how Squid proposed this is that then Civitate and Artifex badges would go away and everyone would be a Citizen with multiple other options showing below that, either images or text.

but then the question is: if the title (badge or text) is not tied to an authorization group, does this mean that each citizen can pick from the full list at his own will?

Just asking, I'm not very good with techy things

[Halie Satanus]

but then the question is: if the title (badge or text) is not tied to an authorization group, does this mean that each citizen can pick from the full list at his own will?

Just asking, I'm not very good with techy things

Something that has always been a bug bear with me.

[Genius of the Restoration]

Mmm, I think it's fine. Some people's main contributions to the site change over time and they should be able to reflect that. I don't think they should be locked into a title for the contributions they had when they got citizenship five years ago, for example. People are pretty realistic with it, so I don't think it's a problem.

[Halie Satanus]

I don't like making citizenship a medal. And that's where the discussion ends for me to be honest.

That wouldn't make citizenship a medal. it would make Artifex a medal and Civitate a medal and maybe another medal for 'other contributions. But citizenship would be a separate thing.

Immaterial I think, nobody will write into the constitution that one must fit into pre-existing categories.

Nobody can't do anything because nobody doesn't exist. I don't think you've been following the thread there short round. Maybe you need to go back to bed with a nice bowl of chicken soup..

Not needed, since every full member can already make use of the forum magnum main and has the constitutional right to ask for a subforum to be created for him to see a project of his through.

Not needed, but nice, better, progressive. It's an idea.... Errol, I have high hopes for you, but not until you stop looking sideways at everything...

[Aikanár]

That wouldn't make citizenship a medal. it would make Artifex a medal and Civitate a medal and maybe another medal for 'other contributions. But citizenship would be a separate thing.

Yeah, sort of a reflex line whenever medal is mentioned with citizenship sorry

Nobody can't do anything because nobody doesn't exist. I don't think you've been following the thread there short round. Maybe you need to go back to bed with a nice bowl of chicken soup..

It's far worse than chicken soup

Not needed, but nice, better, progressive. It's an idea.... Errol, I have high hopes for you, but not until you stop looking sideways at everything...

Why would we grant somebody a privilege for contribution if he hasn't done anything (or not enough yet) without reason? If you like to do that to be nice or whatever, please just say so. I simply wanted to point out, that the correlation you're drawing with the Forum Magnum is not needed, since all permissions are in place for everybody.

If it's trial citizenship you like. Then please go on and say so. And I have absolutely no high hopes for any sort of trial citizenship, kind of defeats the: do something in order to earn it. If you like to change that, you lost me.

[Halie Satanus]

Yeah, sort of a reflex line whenever medal is mentioned with citizenship sorry .

I tend to do that too, any time someone mentions one size fits all badges or the removal of Artifex, if only those pesky kids knew what it took to get Artifex voted through in the first place.

It's far worse than chicken soup

I've always found dark chocolate and orange juice works..

Why would we grant somebody a privilege for contribution if he hasn't done anything (or not enough yet) without reason? If you like to do that to be nice or whatever, please just say so. I simply wanted to point out, that the correlation you're drawing with the Forum Magnum is not needed, since all permissions are in place for everybody.

If it's trial citizenship you like. Then please go on and say so. And I have absolutely no high hopes for any sort of trial citizenship, kind of defeats the: do something in order to earn it. If you like to change that, you lost me.

I don't like 'fixing' things that aren't broken, the FM, to my eyes is broken, if not broken it's a forum which doesn't work as intended. If it was in another area of the site I doubt it would have lasted this long. Temp citizenship was just an idea, but one I think has some merit. We tend to hold Citizenship up as a holy grail rather than a tool we can use. If my idea was to come to fruition and citizenship was separated from the award it comes with it could be used much more as an incentive to curial participation.

Any way, I've hijacked Squids thread enough..

[PikeStance]

I tend to do that too, any time someone mentions one size fits all badges or the removal of Artifex, if only those pesky kids knew what it took to get Artifex voted through in the first place. .

The Badge is proposed to be generic. However, the distinction for contribution would become more pronounced, not less so.

To be honest, it would be nice to get a visual on how it would look if it to look differently than the way multiple user groups are displayed.

@ GED sorry, but I could not tell by your comment if you are saying it would look like user groups do now but created differently or it would look different. {sorry I cannot tell if this is saying what I think it does, I hope you understand what I mean...LOL}

[Squid]

@ GED sorry, but I could not tell by your comment if you are saying it would look like user groups do now but created differently or it would look different. {sorry I cannot tell if this is saying what I think it does, I hope you understand what I mean...LOL}

If I can't get images linked then it would look like the usergroups currently do below the badge/usertitle (if you have no badge showing).

[GrnEyedDvl]

@ GED sorry, but I could not tell by your comment if you are saying it would look like user groups do now but created differently or it would look different. {sorry I cannot tell if this is saying what I think it does, I hope you understand what I mean...LOL}

This is Squid's idea, and he would be the one creating the code, but this is my understanding of what he posted. If I am completely wrong here then that is my fault not Squid's.

1. We create some custom profile fields. This is already a function of vBulletin, in fact the Tournaments plugin hooks into it but I have never seen one that uses images.
2. We set some permissions on those fields, only certain user groups can pick each one.
3. And then it displays like this, with the red squares being new images:



If he cannot get images to work, then it displays as text in the same spot as the current text under your badge.

[Shankbot de Bodemloze]

Archived. Drop me a PM if you would like it reopened.