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  1. #1
    PikeStance's Avatar Greater of Two Evils
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    Default Re: Curial Inclusiveness

    I'd actually suggested this change over a year ago. You can view the discussion here

    For your convenience, I copied the OP here (There is a visual on how it would/ could look as Squid suggested in the OP)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    In view of recent discussion involving this site, I have been developing some ideas for improvement of this site.

    Whether or not the CdeC is abolished or not, this idea will not be affected. An applicant for citizenship will still be required to make a valuable contribution to the site regardless of the process use to determine that.

    In order to increase site activity and to increase the visibility of individual accomplishments, I make the following suggestions.

    There are many ways a person can contribute to the site. Some concentrate in one area only, while others contribute in a variety of different ways. Regardless of the process, all that is required for citizenship is for the member to make a valuable contribution. This should require no expertise in any particular area of the site. Every applicant awarded citizenship is given a citizens badge and the entitlement that is associated with it.

    However, many members continue to contribute to the site. For citizens who make a substantial contribution, an additional recognition can be acquired. Currently, we have Artifex and Civitate. Obviously additional titles would have to be made to suit the various areas of contribution not specifically recognized. This will not be a badge, but a title under the badge.


    Artifex * Content Staff

    The awarding of recognition will be done by a panel of modders elected by fellow modders themselves. Each “branch” would determine the number, qualification and manner in which “panel member will serve.

    Each branch will also determine nomination process and the minimal requirement to be considered for the special recognition.

    I would also include a second level of recognition called; Master Artifex (other branches may choose different but similar titles).


    Master Artifex * Curator * Content Staff

    What follows is the current awards


    ADDENDUM (From Post #8)
    Technically, what I am proposing isn't anything new. Guilds have certainly been discuss. In the interest of generating greater interest in the site is I've taken the current system and introduce the "guild idea" in an less intrusive but in a more dynamic concept. If people seek recognition they can do it in a variety of ways. You can, in theory, be considered a "master" in many different areas of the site. By incorporating the the members of the different areas it is hoped that this will generate greater interest and participation in the forum to make a more well- rounded community.

    I will answer the questions as I envision the implementation to go, but I know a proposal like this can take on a life of its own. The point of posting here is to facilitate this life.
    To your questions;
    Would there be any differences between the levels of citizenship or is it just aesthetics (like the current award system)?
    To my knowledge the current award system is not aesthetics. The Opifex is an award for real contribution to the site and it is far from aesthetic appeal. To answer your question, Yes and no.
    No, it is not aesthetics. The Artifex (and Master Artifex) designation are indication of real contribution to the site. The difference is you will be judged by your peers and not the "at large" community for your contribution. I mentioned in the OP that each branch can create a panel to vote on Artifex candidates, however it can also be done by a vote of all modders (Artifex). Regardless of the "extra" distinction all citizens are equal. The differentiation would only matter within each area of the site.

    What would happen to current citizens if this passes?

    This is an excellent question and something that would have to be worked out. The easy part would be to disperse people in within the various areas. My best guest that Civitates and Artifex are easily discernible as there application often indicate one or the other. I would imagine citizens who contribute in content would also be easily discernible. My best guess would to have a "Grandfather Clause" where current citizens can choose where they best fit (in one area only*) then they can apply to part of another area if they feel equally qualified. As far as "Master" recognition I imagine that should be left to each area to decide who is a master who isn't.
    * I supposed this can be abused. A citizen can choose one area that they are weakest in then apply in an area they are strongest in. However, this would be grounds for conduct unbecoming a citizen. One hopes severe criticism would prevent such abuses from taken place!

    What happens to the current awards (the ones mentioned by jim)?

    Nothing! This being said- those awards should remain an "at large" awarding. By that stage, a contributor, regardless of area, should be easily appreciated by all in the community.

    Maybe one of you fine gentlemen could propose this in the Curia?

    I fear the proposal is too immature for such a step. There is a number of issues that probably should be resolve as your questions suggest before taking such a a step. Excuse my personal bias, but I feel out of all of the current proposal to boost activity, this proposal has the most promise to do so.
    I am obvious for this because I feel it is a positive step for the site.
    Small "awards" for areas of modding could probably be added to give Modders more a distinctness. It can easily be adopted for areas of contribution however.
    Last edited by PikeStance; January 21, 2015 at 11:03 PM.

  2. #2
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: Curial Inclusiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post

    Artifex * Content Staff

    (...)


    Master Artifex * Curator * Content Staff
    Is a look like this what is proposed, then?

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  3. #3
    PikeStance's Avatar Greater of Two Evils
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    Default Re: Curial Inclusiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by Ngugi View Post
    Is a look like this what is proposed, then?
    More or less, yes. However the bottom one was reflecting my proposed second tier recognition idea.
    Squid isn't proposing a second tier, just a single badge with text shown in my first [top] example.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Curial Inclusiveness

    I can get behind this

  5. #5
    Navajo Joe's Avatar SS Forum Moderator
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    Default Re: Curial Inclusiveness

    I fully support this, really liked both the initial proposition and the proposals by GED





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  6. #6
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Curial Inclusiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by Squid
    But that still sets up everyone who isn't a modder or debater as something less, as the also rans. You contributed but not to something we consider worthy of something extra.
    I do see your point. However, the guiding issue that drove the Artifex bill through (against significant opposition) was that modders were not represented in the curia. More than that, they weren't specifically recognised by the site bar the Opifex which was relatively new and had very high [curial imposed] standards.

    I've always believed it was the introduction of Artifex [specifically] that kick started TWC's rise from being just another TW site to being 'the' total war site. Based on that I'm not convinced the, long term, affects of not recognising modders [specifically] will have the desired, or a positive, effect.

    An equally effective method of lessening the issues of dividing titles would be to change Artifex/Civitate to medium sized medals which confer the title of 'Citizen.' That would just leave 'Citizen' [Badged] in the curia. Artifex keep their award/title every one happy - ish. It's an alternative.

  7. #7
    Squid's Avatar Opifex
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    Default Re: Curial Inclusiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    I do see your point. However, the guiding issue that drove the Artifex bill through (against significant opposition) was that modders were not represented in the curia. More than that, they weren't specifically recognised by the site bar the Opifex which was relatively new and had very high [curial imposed] standards.
    That lack of representation is what I'm hoping to address for areas other than modding/debating.

    I've always believed it was the introduction of Artifex [specifically] that kick started TWC's rise from being just another TW site to being 'the' total war site. Based on that I'm not convinced the, long term, affects of not recognising modders [specifically] will have the desired, or a positive, effect.
    I'm not trying to not recognize modders (or unrecognize them), I'm trying to give other groups on the site that might, quietly, have the same complaint as modders once did about recognition on TWC, that same recognition by the site that modders now enjoy. If as you believe that recognition spurred the to be the biggest and best modding site for TWC, who's to say what recognizing others on the site would do for TWC.

    An equally effective method of lessening the issues of dividing titles would be to change Artifex/Civitate to medium sized medals which confer the title of 'Citizen.' That would just leave 'Citizen' [Badged] in the curia. Artifex keep their award/title every one happy - ish. It's an alternative.
    I think even switching from the badge to an award would be problematic, which badge would be displayed after all, unless the badge is totally done away with and only awards are left.
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  8. #8
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Curial Inclusiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by Squid View Post
    That lack of representation is what I'm hoping to address for areas other than modding/debating.

    I'm not trying to not recognize modders (or unrecognize them), I'm trying to give other groups on the site that might, quietly, have the same complaint as modders once did about recognition on TWC, that same recognition by the site that modders now enjoy. If as you believe that recognition spurred the to be the biggest and best modding site for TWC, who's to say what recognizing others on the site would do for TWC..
    I get it and agree, to an extent. Though I've never thought of 'citizen' as a lesser award/badge myself.

    I think even switching from the badge to an award would be problematic, which badge would be displayed after all, unless the badge is totally done away with and only awards are left.
    In that case all citizens would have the same [citizen] badge but Artifex/Civitate would have an additional medal.

    There could/should be another medal for 'other' contributions which would have a detailed explanation of what they were given for. - EG: ''Issue Reason: Awarded for exceptional modding or other TW-related contributions to the board.'' I think that's a simpler and more effective solution.

    At present you'd have to come up with a bunch of 'other' titles to cover all the niche areas.
    Last edited by Halie Satanus; January 22, 2015 at 11:02 AM.

  9. #9
    PikeStance's Avatar Greater of Two Evils
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    Default Re: Curial Inclusiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    At present you'd have to come up witha bunch of 'other' titles to cover all the niche areas.
    i would be interested in what the 'other' would be as well,...
    - Artifex [Modding] (Sub-divisions: e.g. text editing, 3D models, mapping, etc..)
    - Civitates [Debater] (Sub-divisions: e.g. Political, social, sports, philosophical, the arts, and science)
    - Calligraphus | Auctor [Content] (Sub-divisions: e.g. creative [aar] technical [guides] official publications [Helios]
    - Aedilis [Gaming] (Sub-divisions: I am not at all familiar)
    - Inquisitorem [Historical Researcher/ Historian] (areas of expertise)
    - Decurion[Curial Positions | Local Moderators] [Subdivisions: e.g. Local Moderators, Curator [ & assistants] and Censors)
    - Consiliatrix [Advice & Support; personal and site] (Sub-division: Psychological & travel, Site and Technical issues,
    That's about all I can think of. I included the "Latin" for S&G not for debate.

    [BTW, why is the sports discussion area outside D&D; I went months believing there wasn't a sports forum, found it when someone directed me to the Basement]
    Last edited by PikeStance; January 23, 2015 at 10:35 PM.

  10. #10
    lolIsuck's Avatar WE HAVE NO CAKE!
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    Default Re: Curial Inclusiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    i would be interested in what the 'other' would be as well,...
    - Artifex (Modding)
    - Civitates (Debater)
    - Content (Non- staff contribution)
    - Gaming
    - Historical Researcher/ Historian (which opens up a lot more areas)
    - Advice- Psychological, travel and Technical (non- staff activity)

    That's about all I can think of.

    [BTW, why is the sports discussion area outside D&D; I went months believing there wasn't a sports forum, found it when someone directed me to the Basement]
    -Being a jolly good fellow and not falling in any of the above categories.

  11. #11
    Makrell's Avatar The first of all fish
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    Default Re: Curial Inclusiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    i would be interested in what the 'other' would be as well,...
    - Artifex (Modding / text editing, 3D models, mapping, etc..)
    - Civitates (Debater with areas of expertise)
    - Content (creative [aar] technical [guides] official publications [e.g Helios]
    - Gaming
    - Historical Researcher/ Historian (areas of expertise)
    - Advice & Support (Psychological, travel and Technical, including local moderation)

    That's about all I can think of.

    [BTW, why is the sports discussion area outside D&D; I went months believing there wasn't a sports forum, found it when someone directed me to the Basement]
    Why are they not latin? i would suggest: - Artifex (Modding / text editing, 3D models, mapping, etc..)
    - Civitates (Debater with areas of expertise)
    - Content (creative [aar] technical [guides] official publications [e.g Helios]
    - Olympian
    - Tacitus (areas of expertise)
    - Advice & Support(i dont know about this one. (Psychological, travel and Technical, including local moderation)


    Also i think advice and support sounds weird.

  12. #12
    Flinn's Avatar His Dudeness of TWC
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    Default Re: Curial Inclusiveness

    support, looking forward to see something new
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  13. #13
    PikeStance's Avatar Greater of Two Evils
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    Default Re: Curial Inclusiveness

    Really? So what areas would you fit into that is not described
    (made some changes to reflect what an applicant may be given credit for contribution

  14. #14
    lolIsuck's Avatar WE HAVE NO CAKE!
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    Default Re: Curial Inclusiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    Really? So what areas would you fit into that is not described
    (made some changes to reflect what an applicant may be given credit for contribution
    Well, I personally wouldn't use any of those categories as I've done very little to nothing in any of them.

  15. #15
    PikeStance's Avatar Greater of Two Evils
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    Default Re: Curial Inclusiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by lolIsuck View Post
    Well, I personally wouldn't use any of those categories as I've done very little to nothing in any of them.
    They were never meant to be all inclusive. (see post 33)

  16. #16
    lolIsuck's Avatar WE HAVE NO CAKE!
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    Default Re: Curial Inclusiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    They were never meant to be all inclusive. (see post 33)
    Yea, so I gave you another option.

  17. #17
    PikeStance's Avatar Greater of Two Evils
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    Default Re: Curial Inclusiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by lolIsuck View Post
    Yea, so I gave you another option.
    Your reaction reminded me of this scene:

  18. #18
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Curial Inclusiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by pike
    [BTW, why is the sports discussion area outside D&D; I went months believing there wasn't a sports forum, found it when someone directed me to the Basement]
    A relic of a time when D&D was held to loftier ideals and sports were considered too chatty.. The Arts forum was once a place where people actually talked about 'the arts.' It was a rarely used [dead] forum until people started talking about TV shows, now it's a bit over spammy imo.

    These type of discussion always, always. Go off on a tangent once people start trying to think up names for things. Always.

  19. #19
    PikeStance's Avatar Greater of Two Evils
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    Default Re: Curial Inclusiveness

    Quote Originally Posted by Makrell View Post
    Why are they not latin? i would suggest: - Artifex (Modding / text editing, 3D models, mapping, etc..)
    - Civitates (Debater with areas of expertise)
    - Content (creative [aar] technical [guides] official publications [e.g Helios]
    - Olympian
    - Tacitus (areas of expertise)
    - Advice & Support(i dont know about this one. (Psychological, travel and Technical, including local moderation)


    Also i think advice and support sounds weird.
    My intention was not to make an all inclusive list, but to give an idea of what 'other' areas could be. What they should be would be best to be discussed at a later time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    A relic of a time when D&D was held to loftier ideals and sports were considered too chatty.. The Arts forum was once a place where people actually talked about 'the arts.' It was a rarely used [dead] forum until people started talking about TV shows, now it's a bit over spammy imo.

    These type of discussion always, always. Go off on a tangent once people start trying to think up names for things. Always.
    Thanks for the 411

  20. #20

    Default Re: Curial Inclusiveness

    I think he wanted to say somehow that there should be a category called "Jolly good fellow", for those we like how they are.

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