Wait for new Patch or install now ?

**Leonidas II** · January 21, 2015, 04:35 AM

Hello,

I have thought about installing EB2 for some time now, but I don't know whether I should wait for the next big patch or do it now.
As far as I know , there are still minor bugs and problems. Is it worth it ?
Could someone who's playing the mod give me any advice ?

greets, Leonidas

**Voice of Treason** · January 21, 2015, 05:14 AM

As most mods are continually being developed, modified, customised, sub-modded or are a "work in progress" etc, you're in for a very long wait if your gonna wait around the forums for the "platinum" editions.

I've yet to find ANY mod or vanilla edition that didn't need some sort of patch or hotfix or tweak...

So why not simply acknowledge and appreciate EBII is a very playable "beta" and experience it "gratis" now?

My only advice would be because of the deliberate and measured pace of the campaign don't pick an obscure faction on the periphery, like Saba or Pritonai or Saka...as it can sometimes take around 130 turns before you are developed enough to branch from a very linear annexing gameplay.

Something like Epeirus is a very good starting faction.
Plenty of early possibility and strategic choice from a central location.

**Mr. Blob** · January 21, 2015, 05:32 AM

I would wait for the full patch. EBII is interesting, but it has glaring problems concerning battles mechanics. Skirmishers, cavalry don't work, sieges also. For reason unknown to me they've removed friend/foe indicator from the UI, which makes difficult recognizing yours and AI's units, especially in the dark. Battles aren't fun as they are in Stainless Steel. I guess developers aren't still acquainted well enough with M2TW engine.

**QuintusSertorius** · January 21, 2015, 05:37 AM

Originally Posted by Mr. Blob

I would wait for the full patch. EBII is interesting, but it has glaring problems concerning battles mechanics. Skirmishers, cavalry don't work, sieges also. For reason unknown to me they've removed friend/foe indicator from the UI, which makes difficult recognizing yours and AI's units, especially in the dark. Battles aren't fun as they are in Stainless Steel. I guess developers aren't still acquainted well enough with M2TW engine.

The battle mechanics are certainly a work in progress, but the highlighted two are addressed in the latest official EDU. Skirmishers are fixed, cavalry are almost there.

**Lord Baal** · January 21, 2015, 07:11 AM

QuintusSertorius, perhaps, and with all due respect, and this is only a suggestion, as I have no rights to command anything since I haven't done anything for the mod, but alin, mr mojo risin, V.T. Marvin, and all the guys get some sort of mini patch, 2.02 if you will, cobbling together EB2 Vegetation&lighting 2.0, EB2 CAI 3.0, EB2 BAI 1.0, HOTFIX - several correction to broken trait mechanics, and any other such update and release that to address most people current complains?

**QuintusSertorius** · January 21, 2015, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by Lord Baal

QuintusSertorius, perhaps, and with all due respect, and this is only a suggestion, as I have no rights to command anything since I haven't done anything for the mod, but alin, mr mojo risin, V.T. Marvin, and all the guys get some sort of mini patch, 2.02 if you will, cobbling together EB2 Vegetation&lighting 2.0, EB2 CAI 3.0, EB2 BAI 1.0, HOTFIX - several correction to broken trait mechanics, and any other such update and release that to address most people current complains?

Not a bad idea; though I can feel myself immediately thinking "but wait a few days until I've had a chance to update my EDU changes!", which means I'd be getting in the way.

I'll suggest it over at The Org, where everyone hangs out.

**Dago Red** · January 21, 2015, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by Lord Baal

QuintusSertorius, perhaps, and with all due respect, and this is only a suggestion, as I have no rights to command anything since I haven't done anything for the mod, but alin, mr mojo risin, V.T. Marvin, and all the guys get some sort of mini patch, 2.02 if you will, cobbling together EB2 Vegetation&lighting 2.0, EB2 CAI 3.0, EB2 BAI 1.0, HOTFIX - several correction to broken trait mechanics, and any other such update and release that to address most people current complains?

This is essential. There's one other thing needed in a hotfix ASAP -- siege AI turtling in the town center, forcing a grind to the death every single battle. It's intolerable (without 6x fast forward). Doesn't need to be that way. Really a killer.

**alin** · January 21, 2015, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Lord Baal

QuintusSertorius, perhaps, and with all due respect, and this is only a suggestion, as I have no rights to command anything since I haven't done anything for the mod, but alin, mr mojo risin, V.T. Marvin, and all the guys get some sort of mini patch, 2.02 if you will, cobbling together EB2 Vegetation&lighting 2.0, EB2 CAI 3.0, EB2 BAI 1.0, HOTFIX - several correction to broken trait mechanics, and any other such update and release that to address most people current complains?

That's a very good idea! It's about time we release a new patch with those fixes/improvements and a bit more that wasn't released.

**Leonidas II** · January 21, 2015, 07:25 AM

Ok thanks for your answers guys. I think I will wait some time until 2.02 comes out. Have a nice time playing!

**Lord Baal** · January 21, 2015, 08:01 AM

Wait Leonidas, that was just a suggestion, it doesn't means it will happen and if it does doesn't mean it will be in the near future.

**Leonidas II** · January 21, 2015, 08:58 AM

Hmm if so I could give it a try. Does EB2 have its own modfolder, so I can use other mods for Medieval 2 at the same time ? And what Fixes should I get after I've installed 2.01 ?

**b0Gia de Bodemloze** · January 21, 2015, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by Leonidas II

Hmm if so I could give it a try. Does EB2 have its own modfolder, so I can use other mods for Medieval 2 at the same time ? And what Fixes should I get after I've installed 2.01 ?

Well first EB2 is modfolder, second you could install 2.01 and then install my Submod compilation that i am preparing:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-2-01-by-b0Gia

**Leonidas II** · January 21, 2015, 09:51 AM

Actually I would like to play vanilla EB2 without any submods, so I only need the released fixes

**prosperin** · January 21, 2015, 11:40 AM

Someone else suggested perhaps a moral boost so that the player doesn't abuse it to grind down the enemy force if they do siege. Since its easier to hold the town center as is, then the walls though the walls would technically be safer.

Also, it's easy to trip up the AI in a siege by spreading a siege around to three wall sections spreading them thin so at least two breaks happen and then they move to support the flaggering initial middle breakpoint.

**QuintusSertorius** · January 21, 2015, 12:21 PM

As a general rule, morale for all units has gone down since 2.01, not up.

**Dago Red** · January 21, 2015, 06:01 PM

Looking forward to this!

Originally Posted by prosperin

Someone else suggested perhaps a moral boost so that the player doesn't abuse it to grind down the enemy force if they do siege.

We should care less about what other players do, the game should not be developed for exploiters, or possible lowest common denominator situations that some players might impose for cheap gains, but to be the best game it can be.

I'm not a coder and don't understand how to alter AI behavior, but other M2TW mods do not suffer from this -- so there must be a way to change the default stance or approach the AI is taking.

Originally Posted by prosperin

Also, it's easy to trip up the AI in a siege.

All too true, but 9 out of 10 (more than that) end up with a tedious grind in the center that's just painful to the player. The AI refuses to defend the walls, opting in most cases to horde into the center the moment there is a beach of some kind -- other times acting more dynamically, but the end result is always a brawl in the center, usually a foregone conclusion but for some reason won't end until all 500 or 5000 enemy are slain. The AI's best defense is this RL (real life) deterrent, oddly enough, since as a player I don't want to continually experience this. Instead I do everything to lure garrisons away to defeat them in a pitched battle and then auto-resolve most siege situations. Unfortunately, sieges ae my favorite battles so this is not ideal.

**prosperin** · January 21, 2015, 11:10 PM

Oh god, the org too. Whats the difference between .net and .org in terms of team/use?

**QuintusSertorius** · January 22, 2015, 02:32 AM

Originally Posted by prosperin

Oh god, the org too. Whats the difference between .net and .org in terms of team/use?

The Org is the EBII team's home. They all post there, some don't post here.

**Rumpole141** · January 24, 2015, 07:46 AM

For the first 200 terms the current version, with a few fixes that have been posted, is excellent.

The major problem, in my opinion, is that you have to win fairly quickly if you want to win at all. One the AI has built all improvements in its cities, it uses its ever-increasing king's purse to spam new units by staying on the brink of bankruptcy and immediately spending its bailout funds on units. If you play cautiously or according to a historical timeline, you end up facing factions that all have a bankrupt economy and a gigantic military. They can only be defeated by building up an enormous treasury, rush-building a large army, hiring mercenaries, and trying to capture all cities before the cost of your army bankrupts you. In the case of a horde faction which must be eliminated as a victory condition, the process must then be repeated.The novelty of this strategy wears off after a few campaigns.

Try playing as Saba, who start small but without threatening neighbors, and you will see what I mean. It is possible to conquer all of Egypt and every port city on the Red Sea, Persian Gulf, or Indian Ocean, then move north into Asia. This leaves you solidly in first place, but it takes so long that the depleted Ptolemids, Seleucids, and Nabateans all have fast-growing militaries that are each individually a match for the largest force that you can afford.

By contrast the Aedui, who look weak and have many potentially hostile neighbors, are very easy if you blitz, blitz, blitz.

**Dago Red** · January 24, 2015, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Rumpole141

For the first 200 terms the current version, with a few fixes that have been posted, is excellent.

The major problem, in my opinion, is that you have to win fairly quickly if you want to win at all. One the AI has built all improvements in its cities, it uses its ever-increasing king's purse to spam new units by staying on the brink of bankruptcy and immediately spending its bailout funds on units. If you play cautiously or according to a historical timeline, you end up facing factions that all have a bankrupt economy and a gigantic military. They can only be defeated by building up an enormous treasury, rush-building a large army, hiring mercenaries, and trying to capture all cities before the cost of your army bankrupts you. In the case of a horde faction which must be eliminated as a victory condition, the process must then be repeated.The novelty of this strategy wears off after a few campaigns.

I agree, the AI economy and kings purse/money cheats must be reined in -- they are totally out of control. I'm playing as Pontos well past turn 300 and the campaign actually got more interesting (and fun, and challenging) for a while than ever, so this issue doesn't always affect the player too adversely.

But your point is well taken even in this situation where I can achieve a victory as Pontos and not have to deal too directly with these errors. Pahlava has declared war on me, and though I can essentially ignore them across the Caspian now (and leave a sizable garrison on my eastern border as a precaution), I see they are repeatedly the richest faction, even though they only have 2 territories left, one of which is a complete backwater that's losing population. They seem to be spamming massive stacks out of their lone "city" and this is after I annihilated 3 full stacks to push them out of the Caucasus in the first place. If I chose to take the fight to them, the game would quickly turn from fun and interesting to a tedious management-style exercise. I'm sitting at a desk, but I don't want a game that feels like work.

This should be easily fixed / re-balanced, but it brings up another issue -- diplomacy. Pahlava accepted a truce in this instance, but overall the diplomacy feels like everyone's a knuckle head who doesn't actually pursue their interests. It needs some serious tweaking.