Obama, State of the Union and whether he delivered on the Change promised in 2008.

[alhoon]

I didn't watch the State of the Union, I just read about it here:

http://news.yahoo.com/how-obama--tur...034840294.html

According to the link, Obama gave forward a triumphant message a bit short from "mission accomplished". The reasons for that, according to the source (and I agree with that to large degree) are that Obama doesn't have more elections to expect for and that situation is better than it was in 2013 State of the Union.

Yet, triumphant message or not, Obama's number aren't high. My explanation? He delivered change as promised in 2008 (Cuba embargo, climate change, immigration, obamacare, economy among many others) but his voters, the ones that voted for the change in 2008 (and 2012) didn't want that kind of change and probably some are not convinced the phenomenal economic recovery should be put on Obama's shoulders.

Personally, I believe he did good and that Obama while not the only one responsible for the recovery or the environmental polices and Obamacare was instrumental in all of them and his agenda, that became his party's agenda whipped up enough support to pass those big changes that Obama promised and the voters didn't like after all.

[snuggans]

the first time in history words like 'transgender' 'lesbian' etc, have been used in a state of the union. my bruv Barack

did anyone hear that sizzling retort after the repubs were cheering when he said he doesn't have any more campaigns to run? that standing ovation was hilarious

[DecimusMaximus]

Barack was/is a great speaker. That's what he does best. He talks. However, the polzarization between parties and races has not improved whatsoever under his leadership, and in fact, has gotten worse. It may just be the fact that I am more politically active nowadays than before, but I feel the division of the country hasn't been this strong, not since I can remember. His administration (inadvertantly or purposefully) has caused this by playing the issues and catering to various groups. Under his administration, proof was brought forth that not only was the government monitoring communications of non-suspected citizens, but storing it and creating threat matrixes from the information. So what if it didn't start under his administration? It could have ended. But it hasn't. The media is as much at fault here as any politician, all major outlets included. Pandering to one side or the other, important information is either underreported or not reported at all for the sake of spinning the story.

In essence, under Obama's administration, this country has gotten much closer to the bring of civil disorder than generations before.

[snuggans]

division of the country? division of the GOP more like it, then sure your statements makes more sense. even established GOP figures have insulted these tea party republicans which would gladly shut down the government to humorously block a piece of legislation that was inspired by a Massachusetts law which the most recent GOP presidential candidate had signed and endorsed when he was governor of that state.

sort your own party out before you go on to blame Obama, please. 14% congress approval, 50% presidential approval, that's all that's really needed to be said at the moment. he's hit Russia, Venezuela, China, and ISIS's black market oil sales all at the same time through backdoor dealings with the Saudis, which is i think a master stroke in foreign policy. markets are happy, unemployment is at default. his string of executive orders have all been successes with the public and with many nearby countries. outmaneuvering Putin without firing a shot or deploying anything except a few air patrols in the baltics, he has the EU on his side and he was spearheading for sanctions long before MH17 was shot down. overall he's been far more multilateral especially in Iraq with an actual coalition, and UN/EU support, contrary to the mess his predecessor started there which he's now been trying to get under control with minimal amount of assets. ACA is working even with all those stubborn red states still refusing to expand medicaid, ironic because it's the region with the worst health statistics and yet their voter base treat Obama like somebody who isn't actually doing anything for them.

[DecimusMaximus]

Keep blaming Bush. Right.

First and foremost, in spite of your assumption, the GOP isn't "my party". I'm libertarian. Both parties are twisted beyond hope, neither act for the good of the people of the US, both are bought and paid for. Obama's foreign policy's feats in one area are trumped with his short-comings in others. Unemployment is only down because they no longer count people who have stopped looking for work, wall street might be booming but main street is still reeling. And outmaneuvering Putin? Really? Putin's a psycho but at least the man has follow-through and does what he says he's going to do. Putin's pretty much -slapped Obama multiple times because Obama has no spine. He's a president who's true potential is trumped by his extreme caution due to polls and ratings. And you didn't even address the polarization his administration has provided for the country. Deflected, yes. Addressed, nope.

And ACA is hardly working. A lot of people have had to switch providers and when they do, they are paying more than they were originally. ACA would be a brilliant thing implimented on a state-to-state level by each state. Federal blanket mandating only causes problems.

[DecimusMaximus]

Go right ahead...it's done great for you thus far. :p And if you think my statements about polarization are implied because of the LGBT community, YOU are the reason America is so polarized. "Think like us or OH MY GOD A BIGOT!"....even when our disagreements have absolutely nothing to do with what could logically be considered bigotry. So yeah. At that, case proven, I'm done.

[snuggans]

polarization like what? supporting LGBT? not going into another solo cowboy adventure into another desert with few days of anticipation to chase ghosts?


and on Putin and Obama, i guess all you really focus on are toy tanks and toy planes and who flashes them more at the other (i guess thats what you mean by slap).
doesn't matter anyway, i'm just going to keep reading the headlines of the russian economy and the price of petroleum

[DecimusMaximus]

What I said is a perfect example. Between the GOP and the libs and their extremes, it's torn the country down the middle to the extent that if you don't think like a lib, you're an enemy of the libs, or visa-versa with the GOP. Tolerance isn't tolerant anymore. And special treatment of any sort of minority or majority causes this as well. Take for example the apologetic attitude many people have towards African-Americans because of the white man's role in slavery. I have absolutely no guilt whatsoever because of that. Some consider me a racist because of that, and I beg to differ. In fact, I consider myself less racist than anyone who would pander to anyone else because of the color of their skin or their sexual orientation. But I'm going off on a rant, now.

The amount of double-standards the current political system has inflicted on us is damn-near crippling. The amount of regulations on small businessed handed down by the fed is staggering, and frankly, to deny that the US is heading in the direction (emphasize on heading in, as in not already there) of a police state is, at this juncture, pretty naive. Yes, there's countries out there who have it worse. Yes, it could be worse (and likely will be), so for 's sake let's ditch the GOP and the Dems and get ourselves some thinkers who didn't have their life-long career in politics funded by special interest groups.

[snuggans]

i was asking what you meant by polarization, you werent giving examples so i tossed some out to see if anything hit

[YukonTrooper]

His speech changed everything. America is destined for the City on the Hill. I love you, Barack.

What economic recovery?

[Vanoi]

His speech changed everything. America is destined for the City on the Hill. I love you, Barack.

What economic recovery?

I guess unemployment going down and the economy growing doesn't count as economic recovery?

[Lord Thesaurian]

About the lack of change: Gay rights.

Obama has historically played a wait-and-see game on most of these issues, landing on one side or the other only when he felt he knew which way the political winds were blowing (Ex. he didn't openly endorse gay marriage until 2012). Gay marriage has been a 50-year legal struggle fought in state and federal courts. The widespread legalization of gay marriage within the last year was made possible by a USSC ruling in 2013 that struck down key parts of DOMA and created a legal precedent for activists to exploit at the state level.

less aggressive foreign policy,

Obama has continued Bush's war on terror, with the noted difference of letting drones and the Air Force rather than the Army and Marines take down terrorists. The only thing less agressive about his policy is his reluctance to escalate force in Iraq because that would anger his base (and indeed much of the country).

his efforts for illegal immigrants

If you're referring to his executive orders on DACA, those were toothless political moves; a gesture to beef up border security and expand eligibility for DACA status during the refugee crisis last year. Basically, children who qualify for DACA and their parents may more easily apply for Deferred Action Status. Even if one manages to qualify for Deferred Action Status, that does not mean he or she is considered to be in the country legally, only that their deportation may be deferred for up to 3 year periods while their case goes through the courts (as opposed to immediate deportation). In addition, the Administration ended Operation Streamline, which had obligated federal prosecutors to go after migrant workers, even if they had no criminal history. None of this actually shields illegal immigrants from prosecution and deportation. If the Administration were really serious about immigration reform, they'd have done more about it when Democrats dominated Congress from 2009-11.

Legal Marijuana

Which has exactly what to do with the President? Aside from expressing his approval by silence of the states that have legalized the drug, he has personally done nothing for or against the issue. The DOJ/feds continue to prosecute people for it, even in states where it is legal.

Cuba

The President used executive orders to basically un-enforce certain travel and commerce restrictions. It will be up to Congress/subsequent administrations to actually do something about the embargo.

environment

The Administration has been all bark and no bite on environmental policy in order to drum up their base; taxing and penalizing coal plants whilst subsidizing coal-powered cars, railing against Republicans for raping the earth, and strawmanning the Keystone issue for fundraising purposes. The US-China climate deal was of symbolic importance assuming future administrations can figure out how to actually enforce bilateral "guidelines" along a fifteen-year time frame, but the most the President could do about it for now is to use it in fundraising campaigns.

cutting back the space program, his suggestion for free universities... all these are in his agenda and it's sweeping change. Yes, I don't agree with all of those. But they are the change promised.
Did he do them alone? Of course not! But there is little else he could do to push those; he's not a dictator. He's already considered autocratic for pushing too many stuff bypassing Congress. So saying that "These don't lie on his shoulders alone!" is true but he did all he could and then some for these to happen

I don't see how cutting the space program could be considered "sweeping change" considering NASA still goes to space all the time. The President is not suggesting free post-secondary education, but rather, federal coverage of community college tuition for qualifying students. Even if that concept goes from a proposal to a law, something that the President would probably not be in office to see happen, it would remain to be seen exactly how that affects the economy/workforce.

If anything, you've named multiple issues where the Administration has, by inaction or executive action, presided over the establishment of precedents that could be made or unmade by subsequent administrations. These are not "sweeping changes" brought about by the President so much as they are symbolic efforts to expand the possibility for major changes in the future. So again, considering that in 08 Obama was supposed to be a Dark Horse renegade set to take Washington by storm, he will end up leaving the Presidency and the government after 8 years in much the same shape that he found it in. All in all, the major policy issue he personally carried through 100% of the way is the ACA, and as I said, that legislation will be his legacy for better or worse.

[alhoon]

If anything, you've named multiple issues where the Administration has, by inaction or executive action, presided over the establishment of precedents that could be made or unmade by subsequent administrations. These are not "sweeping changes" brought about by the President so much as they are symbolic efforts to expand the possibility for major changes in the future. So again, considering that in 08 Obama was supposed to be a Dark Horse renegade set to take Washington by storm, he will end up leaving the Presidency and the government after 8 years in much the same shape that he found it in. All in all, the major policy issue he personally carried through 100% of the way is the ACA, and as I said, that legislation will be his legacy for better or worse.

Yet, as I said those nudges, establishment of precedents, bringing efforts of decades to fruition etc is the most he could do. He doesn't rule alone. A lot of things changed under Obama with his help whether those started 50 years ago like the gay marriage and were supported by his choices for the Supreme Court or showing his support to something by pushing for "supporting" legislation (Legal Marijuana: Those that were imprisoned in states that now its legal are candidates for presidential pardons and get-out-jail free cards).

PS. Foreign policy: He also didn't intervene in Syria or Egypt and was drugged in Libya by the Europeans.

[Stavroforos]

It was a decent speech, and the domestic initiatives sounded nice. The international ones...not as assertive as I'd like, but still.

I did lol when he suggested that his presidency is responsible for low gas prices though.

[Condottiere 40K]

America has changed.

Obama's presidency caused the crazies to come out of the woodwork and hijack the GOP, and the electorate had a good hard look at them, to decide as to what degree they agreed with them. There's a great deal more consciousness as to how big money influences policies and elections.

Obama will now sockblock any attempt from Congress to eliminate his legacies, and will set the ground for the successful election of the next Democratic candidate.

[alhoon]

and will set the ground for the successful election of the next Democratic candidate.

That's not that good... the same party remaining in power for 12 years means that while the president changes, the mid-level officials etc are prompted up by the same party for a long period. Chronism, nepotism etc will set in.

[justicar5]

That's not that good... the same party remaining in power for 12 years means that while the president changes, the mid-level officials etc are prompted up by the same party for a long period. Chronism, nepotism etc will set in.

better than the murderous psychopaths the republican party always inflict on the world.

[Stavroforos]

better than the murderous psychopaths the republican party always inflict on the world.

As opposed to the party of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, and global drone strikes.

[justicar5]

As opposed to the party of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Bay of Pigs, Vietnam, and global drone strikes.

Neither is perfect by a long way, Dems recently have a lower body count it all.

[conon394]

The amount of double-standards the current political system has inflicted on us is damn-near crippling. The amount of regulations on small businessed handed down by the fed is staggering,

Funny I have not found them a problem it the ones handed down by my red as red can be state government and the LDS dominated county and city governments are the ones I find crippling.