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Thread: [Obsolete EDU Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

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  1. #1

    Default [Obsolete EDU Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

    Greetings one and all! I've been promising this for a while and I'm glad that I can finally offer something concrete. The mod is still progressing in the background, even if things seem a bit quiet, hopefully this will demonstrate the team is still at work. Furthermore, here's something you can all do to help which doesn't require much more effort than installing this change and trying it out (and reporting back).

    Partly as a result of the previous thread, I'm now Ibrahim's EDU-sidekick, implementing stuff for testing before they make the next release. Thanks to some assistance from Voice of Treason, I haven't wasted four weeks of work and now have a functional, updated export_descr_unit.txt and new descr_projectiles.txt to trial. The former is an update of my own work with a lot of changes that feature in the current build's EDU, including many balancing fixes, consistency checks, a complete reworking of fatigue and some new ideas on how to model things like levy spearmen.

    Cavalry formations have been tightened generally, all but horse archers now have close formations. There should be a very noticeable different in fatigue - both from increases in stat_heat across the board and the removal of hardy/downgrading of very_hardy to hardy for many units.

    The descr_projectiles.txt is the new one from the current build, which should fix the unimpressive default javelins from 2.01. I've also carried over slightly longer ranges for javelineers, though infantry now default to 60m and cavalry 55m (it was 70m and 60m in my unofficial fix). Let me know how that works out - are javelineers still throwing them at those ranges?


    This is fairly close to the final version, so it's relatively safe to use for a campaign, but beware any future edits won't be savegame compatible. Generally EDU changes should be, but since 2.01 I've never found them to be, so to save yourself a lot of restarted campaigns, either don't start one or use any subsequent updates for custom battles only. I'll try to keep re-issuing an updated EDU for major edits/fixes, rather than tweaking stats or correcting omissions.

    On to the goods.

    Here are the two files you need (install both in [Your M2TW directory]\mods\EBII\data, overwriting what's there - backup your originals first):

    EDIT12 (3/5/15): Attachment 324923 - a host of little tweaks all over the place:
    • Numerous sword/knife discrepancies resolved
    • Carthaginian Sacred Band, KH Bodyguard and Epilektoi Hoplitai now equal in attack stats to Hypaspistai
    • A few more morale tweaks
    • The two Kretan units now have the correct secondary weapon stats
    • Some stat_ground changes for Celtic and Germanic units


    EDIT3 (22/4/15): Attachment 324457 - complete overhaul with new projectiles, all with regular names - "medium_arrow" instead of "arrow160".

    Make sure you install them both; if you forget the second you'll get an error or CTD given the first refers to it.

    One more associated file everyone should be using that is linked to the EDU and D_P changes is the battle_config.xml. Kill rates for missiles has been increased (from 0.35 to 0.75), and for melee slightly decreased (from 0.35 to 0.3): EDIT: Attachment 324822 (unzip into the same location as the other files - this should be savegame compatible).

    I'd highly recommend everyone use z3n's updated pathfinding, BAI and CAI. The pathfinding in particular will be important with the next update.

    Enjoy! Please make sure you report back what you find with it. What's good, what's not so good, what looks funny and so on. All feedback welcome.


    OPTIONAL: Campaign updates including Bosporan recruitment fix

    I'm now in a position to start thinking about campaigns. This is not officially endorsed, though it's a change the team is experimenting with in the next release. That being the removal of the scripted boosts to troop replenishment the AI Hellenistic factions get in 2.01 (which may be reponsible in part for the "Pergamon has one province, but four full stacks" issue.

    In addition, the Bosporans were forgotten about in an update of the Hellenistic Poleis building, meaning they lose out on a load of recruitment options in settlements featuring them (including their capital). I've fixed that so they should have a lot more troops to choose from, both as player and AI.

    If you want to try a campaign with both of these updates, download this: EDIT: Attachment 324658.

    Lastly, I've been tinkering around with the options in the Hellenistic Poleis, making them give all the levy Greek troops, but no phalanxes. If you want to try all of the above, but with my completely unofficial tweak, download this instead: EDIT: Attachment 324659.

    In both instances, NOT savegame compatible, and you need to delete your map.rwm before starting a new campaign.
    Last edited by QuintusSertorius; May 02, 2015 at 07:26 PM.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: [Official Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

    Great!


    Edit, Some testing:
    1.Skirmishers now works nice,both against normal infantry and phalanx.
    2.Light cav is bit to fast.
    3.
    Please note phalanxes are very much a work in progress; the different units have different stats to try out different configurations. They're my next area of focus once the changes in here have been resolved. This includes restoring their secondary weapon and messing with their mass and attack values.
    Well,I still fought some battles with them :
    --
    Phalangitai:In guard move they stop doing much and just block the enemy from reaching them ,most of the time.If they reach them they use their secondary weapons,which are in my opinion a bit too strong.
    Without guard mode they usually march forward resulting in most of them drawing their swords.
    --
    Machimoi:Too widespread,like meters between each soldier,so I think that's not supposed to be the case.
    --
    Pantodapoi:Simliar to the phalangitai just weaker in close combat.Enemy sword units (Celitc Combatants in my test) are also really passive ,even if in normal Med 2 meele range, and often don't do anything to actually attack the phalangitai.
    --
    Mercenary pahlanx:Unchanged?

    Fights between phalanxes result in both sides fighting with the sarissa first and then the front ranks switching to their secondary weapons.
    Last edited by Sint; January 20, 2015 at 07:26 PM.
    Elder Scrolls Online :Messing up the Lore since 2007...

    Well overhand or underhand: 3:50 Onwards...

  3. #3

    Default Re: [Official Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Sint View Post
    Great!


    Edit, Some testing:
    1.Skirmishers now works nice,both against normal infantry and phalanx.
    2.Light cav is bit to fast.
    1 - Excellent, their range is a bit of a balancing act. Originally, they were at "realistic" ranges, which unfortunately didn't work with skirmish range. I went with functional ranges in my first attempt to fix them, I've reduced that a little so it's more realistic, but thankfully still functional.

    2 - I agree, I'm working on another formula still, using a lower base multiplier. There won't be more than a 20% boost for any unit (and ultimately it tends to be the light cavalry who get the biggest boost having the lower ranges of stat_heat).

    Quote Originally Posted by Sint View Post
    3.
    Well,I still fought some battles with them :
    --
    Phalangitai:In guard move they stop doing much and just block the enemy from reaching them ,most of the time.If they reach them they use their secondary weapons,which are in my opinion a bit too strong.
    Without guard mode they usually march forward resulting in most of them drawing their swords.
    --
    Machimoi:Too widespread,like meters between each soldier,so I think that's not supposed to be the case.
    --
    Pantodapoi:Simliar to the phalangitai just weaker in close combat.Enemy sword units (Celitc Combatants in my test) are also really passive ,even if in normal Med 2 meele range, and often don't do anything to actually attack the phalangitai.
    --
    Mercenary pahlanx:Unchanged?

    Fights between phalanxes result in both sides fighting with the sarissa first and then the front ranks switching to their secondary weapons.
    Thanks for that.

    Hmm, so they need Guard Mode on to prevent them just switching to swords right away.

    I'll have a look at the Machimoi, something funny must have happened with their formation.

    Yep, I think the Mercenary Phalangitai are unchanged.

    So in phalanx fights they don't all switch to swords?

  4. #4

    Default Re: [Official Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

    I've noted more people have viewed the EDU than descr_projectiles. Just a gentle reminder, you absolutely need both of them in order to use the new EDU, without the D_P you'll get a CTD, since there are references to weapons that don't exist in the old D_P.

  5. #5
    ComnenusTheOne's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Official Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

    Ummm.... i get a CTD every time i try to start a campaign or load a previous one... i am not sure if in battles i will receive a CTD as well, but i wage that i will. Care to explain?

  6. #6

    Default Re: [Official Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

    Quote Originally Posted by ComnenusTheOne View Post
    Ummm.... i get a CTD every time i try to start a campaign or load a previous one... i am not sure if in battles i will receive a CTD as well, but i wage that i will. Care to explain?
    You absolutely won't be able to use this for an existing campaign. It's best to delete your map.rwm and start a new campaign (so that the game generates a fresh one) if you're going to try a campaign. As MIKE GOLF said, without your error log (see [Your M2TW directory]\logs), we have no idea what's going on, and indeed whether the new EDU is the culprit.

    Also, did you download both files? It won't work with only one.

    I've used it for custom battles without any issues, but some people have reported CTDs with some phalangites - possibly because they don't have secondary weapon animations/skeletons. I'm looking into that.
    Last edited by QuintusSertorius; January 22, 2015 at 04:59 AM.

  7. #7
    ComnenusTheOne's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: [Official Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

    Quote Originally Posted by QuintusSertorius View Post
    You absolutely won't be able to use this for an existing campaign. It's best to delete your map.rwm and start a new campaign (so that the game generates a fresh one) if you're going to try a campaign. As MIKE GOLF said, without your error log (see [Your M2TW directory]\logs), we have no idea what's going on, and indeed whether the new EDU is the culprit.

    Also, did you download both files? It won't work with only one.

    I've used it for custom battles without any issues, but some people have reported CTDs with some phalangites - possibly because they don't have secondary weapon animations/skeletons. I'm looking into that.
    Damnit.... and i did reinstall EBII.... yes i did get both files, but i haven't thought about deleting the map.rwm, it prolly would have fixed it. Oh well, i guess i'll just wait for the CTD-less version

  8. #8

    Default Re: [Official Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

    Quote Originally Posted by ComnenusTheOne View Post
    Damnit.... and i did reinstall EBII.... yes i did get both files, but i haven't thought about deleting the map.rwm, it prolly would have fixed it. Oh well, i guess i'll just wait for the CTD-less version
    For this testing process you're better off sticking with custom battles anyway. Campaigns can come once things have been fixed.

    This should be a CTD-less version, though, I haven't had any playing custom battles. I haven't actually deleted my map.rwm, but I haven't tried a campaign.

  9. #9

    Default Re: [Official Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

    Can you load a copy of the system log? Also are you playing with any other submods?

  10. #10

    Default Re: [Official Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

    There's a whole host of consistency checks I've found now I'm not stuck in the middle of it, plus the unexplored phalangite issues, so I'd highly recommend people don't use this version to start new campaigns with. As in stick to custom battles until the immediate issues have been found and fixed.

  11. #11
    Little Rock's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: [Official Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

    Hello QuintusSertorius

    Not sure if this helps, I found this error message in the log when I tried to start a campaign and had a ctd

    18:11:52.843 [script.err] [error] Script Error in mods/EBII/data/export_descr_unit.txt, at line 6911, column 1
    Missing skeleton for secondary weapon in model type 'pantodapoi_phalangitai', used by unit 'hellenistic infantry pantodapoi phalangitai'.


    18:11:52.843 [script.err] [error] Script Error in mods/EBII/data/export_descr_unit.txt, at line 7222, column 1
    Missing skeleton for secondary weapon in model type 'illyrian_peltophoroi', used by unit 'illyrian infantry peltophoroi'.

  12. #12

    Default Re: [Official Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

    Quote Originally Posted by Little Rock View Post
    Hello QuintusSertorius

    Not sure if this helps, I found this error message in the log when I tried to start a campaign and had a ctd

    18:11:52.843 [script.err] [error] Script Error in mods/EBII/data/export_descr_unit.txt, at line 6911, column 1
    Missing skeleton for secondary weapon in model type 'pantodapoi_phalangitai', used by unit 'hellenistic infantry pantodapoi phalangitai'.


    18:11:52.843 [script.err] [error] Script Error in mods/EBII/data/export_descr_unit.txt, at line 7222, column 1
    Missing skeleton for secondary weapon in model type 'illyrian_peltophoroi', used by unit 'illyrian infantry peltophoroi'.
    It helps - you're not the first to report the same error. Evidently, those two units don't have secondary weapons, so they'll need removing again. Strange that not everyone is getting a CTD with it, though.

  13. #13

    Default Re: [Official Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

    Perhaps those who are not getting the ctd are playing only custom battles.

  14. #14

    Default Re: [Official Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

    Machimoi_Phalangitai have default "soldier" stat is as follows, 96, 0, 0.25, 2
    Changing it to , 96, 0, 1
    solved the problem with their "permanent loose formation" for me.

    Also, Phalangitai have the said stat of , 96, 0, 4, 0.2
    the third number, which is supposed to be mass of units, seems to stray away from the normal values for infantry too much.
    Btw, can someone explain what does the fourth number here mean? Cause in EDU there is no description and it is used on seemingly random units, while not used on the others.

    Misthophoroi Phalangitai have their primary attack of 2, i think it's not intended, since all other phalangites have much larger attack values on their spears.

    Thuerophoroi look like hobos, unlike EB1, where they had linothorax, yet they still have 5 armor!

    Phalanx with guard mode off simply lift the first 3 rows of spears and will not work as intended.

    When you order a phalanx to attack, it will walk directly into the enemy, deal some damage with their spears, but when the first row reaches the enemy, phalangites will start switching to swords, and even though rear ranks will still have their spears, they will not use them to poke at the enemy.

    If you have infantry charging at a waiting phalanx, it will be unable to reach phalangites, for the most part, but will also take no damage from the spears. If you order phalanx to attack in this situation, the fight is going to turn into melee fight with everyone using their swords. Not sure if this behaviour is hardcoded, or how it works in m2tw vanilla, since I have been playing EB1 for quite some time and just recently switched to EB2.

  15. #15

    Default Re: [Official Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

    I think there's a mistake with the Machimoi Phalangitai, the 0.25 and 2 at the end should be the other way around. The varying stats for the different phalangites is intentional (including the very high mass for the Phalangitai), though, to try out various configurations.

    But yes, phalanx behaviour is being explored, this is by no means final.

  16. #16

    Default Re: [Official Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

    Quick update, as in the OP I'd said I'll only release material updates, rather than deluging you with a new file every time I tweak some small thing. Fixing the broken phalangite animation issue isn't "some small thing", and I've removed the secondary weapon from the Pantodapoi and Illyrioi phalangites for the time being, along with sorted the funny spacing for the Machimoi phalanx. There's also a host of minor amendments (mostly consistency; so that lancers have the same attack stats with their lances, and all javelineer-skirmishers being equally useful against elephants), but what I haven't finished yet is the reworking of cavalry speeds. That should be in the next day or two, and once done I'll be putting an update here and removing the old one.

  17. #17

    Default Re: [Official Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

    Updated EDU in the first post, I've fixed the phalangites with no secondary weapon skeletons/animations and the spacing on the Machimoi phalangites. Numerous little tweaks, but a revision of cavalry speeds, which mostly impacts the lighter ones, who will be slower. Even those Numidians!

  18. #18

    Default Re: [Official Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

    Sorry to say, but I am getting a ctd still as a faction is loading up. The error log is attached though I could not trace the source of the perhaps you may be able to.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  19. #19

    Default Re: [Official Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

    Quote Originally Posted by MIKE GOLF View Post
    Sorry to say, but I am getting a ctd still as a faction is loading up. The error log is attached though I could not trace the source of the perhaps you may be able to.
    As far as I can tell from that, it finds the EDU and processes it just fine:
    10:29:13.969 [system.io] [info] exists: found mods/EBII/data/export_descr_unit.txt (from: D:\Program Files\Sega\Medieval II Total War)
    10:29:13.969 [system.io] [trace] file open,,1387D318,529864
    10:29:13.969 [system.io] [info] open: found mods/EBII/data/export_descr_unit.txt (from: D:\Program Files\Sega\Medieval II Total War)
    Here's what it's doing just before the CTD:
    10:29:50.462 [game.script.trigger] [trace] Trigger <Becomes_Faction_Leader_Assign_Gandhara_Victory_Conditions> fired
    10:29:50.462 [game.script.trigger] [trace] Trigger <FinallyBecomesFactionLeader> fired
    10:29:50.484 [bink] [debug] [mods/EBII/data/fmv/menu/DUMP0000.BIK]Pause on
    10:29:50.787 [system.rpt] [error] Medieval 2: Total War encountered an unspecified error and will now exit.
    Did you delete your map.rwm before trying?

  20. #20

    Default Re: [Official Testing] Updated EDU with all the "unofficial" fixes integrated and many other changes

    I did delete the map.rwm, it still crashed.

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