Sieges, Sapping, Ladders Suggestions

**Riekopo** · January 15, 2015, 10:16 PM

In Barbarian Invasion there was a sapping mechanic in sieges. Some units were capable of sapping and you would build these sapping points while besieging a city. On the battle map a wooden tunnel entrance would be at a distance from the wall and you would send a unit to tunnel to the wall. You could see the progress of the tunneling by looking at the ground. Once in contact with the wall it would take damage in intervals until it collapsed. The defender could destroy the sapping point to stop this. I really enjoyed this and would like to see it in Attila.

I have to say that I really preferred the old types of ladders used in the previous games. I find the ramp ladders very goofy. I'd like it if we got normal looking ladders in Attila.

http://i.imgur.com/yBlQulc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/l3f5P8q.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rvs85Zm.jpg

**WarriorPrince** · January 15, 2015, 10:27 PM

Originally Posted by blackberryalpha

In Barbarian Invasion there was a sapping mechanic in sieges. Some units were capable of sapping and you would build these sapping points while besieging a city. On the battle map a wooden tunnel entrance would be at a distance from the wall and you would send a unit to tunnel to the wall. You could see the progress of the tunneling by looking at the ground. Once in contact with the wall it would take damage in intervals until it collapsed. The defender could destroy the sapping point to stop this. I really enjoyed this and would like to see it in Attila.

I personally found the sapping mechanic in R1 sieges to be ridiculous. How fast can these guys dig?

If sapping were to be implemented I would prefer it to be done through the campaign map potentially as part of the siege escalation. This would better represent the time it actually takes to dig that far underground. There should also be appropriate costs/risks to such a tactic. I probably wouldn't be fussed if sapping wasn't included at all.. how often was it actually used successfully historically?

**Humble Warrior** · January 16, 2015, 03:30 AM

Originally Posted by blackberryalpha

In Barbarian Invasion there was a sapping mechanic in sieges. Some units were capable of sapping and you would build these sapping points while besieging a city. On the battle map a wooden tunnel entrance would be at a distance from the wall and you would send a unit to tunnel to the wall. You could see the progress of the tunneling by looking at the ground. Once in contact with the wall it would take damage in intervals until it collapsed. The defender could destroy the sapping point to stop this. I really enjoyed this and would like to see it in Attila.

I have to say that I really preferred the old types of ladders used in the previous games. I find the ramp ladders very goofy. I'd like it if we got normal looking ladders in Attila.

I`ll admit that I complained about the super-fast mole sappers in Rome and suggested it should be a mechanic used over several campaign turns with the final turn having the walls collapse on the battlefield if successful. If the defender has the skill he could use `counter-sappers` to destroy the enemy sap tunnel. That was the only thing I didn`t like about RTW sieges, the rest was pretty good.

It would also be nice if the besieged could dig underground tunnels to weaken the ground that Towers may traverse so as to cause them to collapse and even to build moats\ditches over time to make walls again very difficult to approach.

There is so much CA could do right and keep it authentic if they wanted it to be like a window into history. If only they had the right direction...

**Achilles Lacedaemon** · January 16, 2015, 03:46 PM

Even if it was unrealistic, it still was a battle mechanic, it still added some excitement in siege battles, and it was nice to have it in the game.

**WarriorPrince** · January 17, 2015, 05:02 AM

Originally Posted by Achilles Lacedaemon

Even if it was unrealistic, it still was a battle mechanic, it still added some excitement in siege battles, and it was nice to have it in the game.

I have to disagree. Sapping could be nice to have in Attila if implemented well. But it was so unrealistic in R1 I personally didn't like it as a feature. How can people dig that far underground in only slightly more time than it took to walk ladders to the wall from the same distance?

**Achilles Lacedaemon** · January 17, 2015, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by WarriorPrince

I have to disagree. Sapping could be nice to have in Attila if implemented well. But it was so unrealistic in R1 I personally didn't like it as a feature. How can people dig that far underground in only slightly more time than it took to walk ladders to the wall from the same distance?

It was fun (to me) because when you were the defender, the tension you would have to go through just to try to destroy the sap points before they reached your walls was priceless, and when you were attacking, you would just go defending the sap point at all costs, like if you were Smigol and that thing was your precious.

**WarriorPrince** · January 17, 2015, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by Achilles Lacedaemon

It was fun (to me) because when you were the defender, the tension you would have to go through just to try to destroy the sap points before they reached your walls was priceless, and when you were attacking, you would just go defending the sap point at all costs, like if you were Smigol and that thing was your precious.

From that point of view it gave an unfair advantage to the attacker. Except for physically destroying the sap point there was no option of countering the sap point. Its like giving an automatic entrance to the attacking faction, which goes someway to negate the defensive bonus you should have from defending a walled city. I see how it could be fun, but as an extreme example, so could an an ability to call down fire balls from the sky to destroy the enemy. Fun but not at all realistic.

I would much prefer a more realistic take on sapping, with much longer times (multiple campaign turns), with it also not alway being 100% successful in bringing down the wall. There should also be options to counter, such as sending your own units to dig in hope to meet and kill the enemy who were sapping and then collapse their tunnel.

**Achilles Lacedaemon** · January 18, 2015, 04:58 AM

Originally Posted by WarriorPrince

From that point of view it gave an unfair advantage to the attacker. Except for physically destroying the sap point there was no option of countering the sap point. Its like giving an automatic entrance to the attacking faction, which goes someway to negate the defensive bonus you should have from defending a walled city. I see how it could be fun, but as an extreme example, so could an an ability to call down fire balls from the sky to destroy the enemy. Fun but not at all realistic.

I would much prefer a more realistic take on sapping, with much longer times (multiple campaign turns), with it also not alway being 100% successful in bringing down the wall. There should also be options to counter, such as sending your own units to dig in hope to meet and kill the enemy who were sapping and then collapse their tunnel.

Yes.

But the only thing you needed to destroy the sap points were archers, or some fast units to get out of the city and destroy the thing.