The 2016 presidential race (former: The race to the 2016 presidential race)

[Napoleonic Bonapartism]

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake". Do the protesters think that Trump has a significant shot at winning the General? In which case they must attempt to deny him the nomination. If they don't then either they're being counter-intuitive or fail to see the wider picture - or they're just wasting their time. It'd be interesting to see if they think he has a chance.

Now, Hitler comparisons are stretched at best, honestly I see enough people compare British Conservatives to Nazis that in almost any case it peeves me because it's almost always unreasonable. Less so with Trump than others I guess, but a stretch nonetheless. As has been said before Berlusconi is a far more reasonable comparison, accurate I'd say.

As for the General election, if it's Hillary v. Trump it's a lose-lose. Trump I'm not going to attempt to accurately predict, because if he know one thing with Trump it's that he's erratic. We can gauge the general course, and I'm sure people can comment on that, but it's the style of his administration that will be interesting to see. As for Hillary, a lot of people like to call Sanders utopian. If anyone's utopian it's Hillary. To think you can just carry on as things are (near-enough) and it'll all turn out fine. "The cracks aren't there if I don't look at them". Yeah, that'll turn out well. What on earth the situation will be like in 2020 I dread to think.

[Gaidin]

A technological revolution sure, but it didn't change much in the political world. It didn't have the impact of the three events I cited.

To anybody not familiar with the laws and policies we engineers have to follow when designing products, yes. You see, as wireless engineer I can't just design a product blasting out random signal. You see, every circuit, transciever, reciever, transmitter, or not, has to be tested to make sure that the electronics to not put off electromagnetics above a certain level. If it does, back to the design board. Sometimes this is solved by rearranging the circuitry. Sometimes it has to be redesigned from scratch.

[Garbarsardar]

Probably because they're paid to do so. Different state, but same point.


Dammit snuggans, I was waiting to use that for the You Laugh You Lose thread

Either you are aware that this is an old fake ad that is making the rounds for the past month (meeting at the Janesville wastewater treatment plant.-"due to economic inequality" is already a dead giveaway- not to mention the "time card") and you are posting in the wrong thread, or you genuinely believe this not to be a prank which casts your judgement into a rather unfavorable category.

Make your pick.

[ggsimmonds]

"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake". Do the protesters think that Trump has a significant shot at winning the General? In which case they must attempt to deny him the nomination. If they don't then either they're being counter-intuitive or fail to see the wider picture - or they're just wasting their time. It'd be interesting to see if they think he has a chance.

Now, Hitler comparisons are stretched at best, honestly I see enough people compare British Conservatives to Nazis that in almost any case it peeves me because it's almost always unreasonable. Less so with Trump than others I guess, but a stretch nonetheless. As has been said before Berlusconi is a far more reasonable comparison, accurate I'd say.

As for the General election, if it's Hillary v. Trump it's a lose-lose. Trump I'm not going to attempt to accurately predict, because if he know one thing with Trump it's that he's erratic. We can gauge the general course, and I'm sure people can comment on that, but it's the style of his administration that will be interesting to see. As for Hillary, a lot of people like to call Sanders utopian. If anyone's utopian it's Hillary. To think you can just carry on as things are (near-enough) and it'll all turn out fine. "The cracks aren't there if I don't look at them". Yeah, that'll turn out well. What on earth the situation will be like in 2020 I dread to think.

I think it is fair to say that the protestors are not thinking rationally; they are letting their emotions dictate their behavior.

When it comes to Hillary vs Trump, in this context the American voters are rather conservative; they would prefer the status quo opposed to the wildcard that is Trump. Personally I think you may overstate the cracks a little though. You truly dread to see what 2020 would be like? It will be the same as it is today.

There is admittedly a small part of me that would like to see Trump win though for the same reason you stated. I guess it is the political scientist/sociologist/historian in me.

[Dragus]

Bonapartism: The protesters aren't thinking about political ramifications or strategy. They're not us. They're expressing high emotions and possibly low information.

That's actually a big theme that we can perhaps take from this whole cycle. If everybody was like us, Trump wouldn't be on the GOP ticket. The general election would actually be a very close race instead of a lopsided blue win. Politics at its heart is putting together a large object that pulls along as many people as possible.

It's a mistake in any primary or electoral contest that's limited in demographic scope to assume that the battlefield will remain static. The party who lessens the perceived fringe and plays closer to the median voter will win. This is not to say efforts to shift what the median voter is should not always be in motion! In fact, that's the real golden goose: Shape the public perception well before the election. Shape it in children and in the soul of the country itself. In a democracy the election cycle never truly ends, but perpetually continues.

[Heathen Hammer]

The reason why Republican establishment wanted to sabotage Trump is because most of it is owned and sponsored by corporate elite. Corporate elite already chose Hillary and original plan was to pick someone like Bush or Rubio, who would steal the nomination from potential grassroots troublemakers like Paul and hand over the general election to Hillary on a silver plate (like what happened in 2012 with Romney).
However, even thou Hillary is the establishment's pick, she is clearly a huge liability for Democrats. She was known for having diametrically opposite views (member of racist country clubs, opposed gay marriage, helped destroy women that complained about rapey-Bill's "attention") from before she jumped in on the "progressive" bandwagon, her campaign is financed by corporations, banks and foreign lobbies (not the most popularity-generating thing ever), I'm not even talking about her corruption scandals or her connections to Saudis and other oppressive regimes that sponsor terrorism. Her experience as FS ended up as a disaster for the whole region. Even Obama looks way better then her.
At the same time, Trump doesn't have as nearly as many skeletons in his closet, and aside from a few edgy things he said, he is overall a more likeable person. At the same time, I've seen a lot of comments from disappointed Bernie supporters who said they'd rather see Trump as president then Hillary. The only hope for democrats is that Hillary gets indicted or gets cancer or something and Sanders leads the race instead of her, then they'd at least have a fighting chance since unlike Hillary, Bernie represents a more significant part of American population.

[ggsimmonds]

The reason why Republican establishment wanted to sabotage Trump is because most of it is owned and sponsored by corporate elite. Corporate elite already chose Hillary and original plan was to pick someone like Bush or Rubio, who would steal the nomination from potential grassroots troublemakers like Paul and hand over the general election to Hillary on a silver plate (like what happened in 2012 with Romney).
However, even thou Hillary is the establishment's pick, she is clearly a huge liability for Democrats. She was known for having diametrically opposite views (member of racist country clubs, opposed gay marriage, helped destroy women that complained about rapey-Bill's "attention") from before she jumped in on the "progressive" bandwagon, her campaign is financed by corporations, banks and foreign lobbies (not the most popularity-generating thing ever), I'm not even talking about her corruption scandals or her connections to Saudis and other oppressive regimes that sponsor terrorism. Her experience as FS ended up as a disaster for the whole region. Even Obama looks way better then her.
At the same time, Trump doesn't have as nearly as many skeletons in his closet, and aside from a few edgy things he said, he is overall a more likeable person. At the same time, I've seen a lot of comments from disappointed Bernie supporters who said they'd rather see Trump as president then Hillary. The only hope for democrats is that Hillary gets indicted or gets cancer or something and Sanders leads the race instead of her, then they'd at least have a fighting chance since unlike Hillary, Bernie represents a more significant part of American population.

That is an interesting reality you seem to have constructed for yourself. Tell me, in your world do compasses point south?

[fkizz]

That is an interesting reality you seem to have constructed for yourself. Tell me, in your world do compasses point south?

Election and voting count (otherwise known as Democracy). Isn't Sanders losing to Hillary?

However, even thou Hillary is the establishment's pick, she is clearly a huge liability for Democrats. She was known for having diametrically opposite views (member of racist country clubs, opposed gay marriage, helped destroy women that complained about rapey-Bill's "attention") from before she jumped in on the "progressive" bandwagon, her campaign is financed by corporations, banks and foreign lobbies (not the most popularity-generating thing ever), I'm not even talking about her corruption scandals or her connections to Saudis and other oppressive regimes that sponsor terrorism. Her experience as FS ended up as a disaster for the whole region. Even Obama looks way better then her.

Hillary flirting with the Saudi Regime tells a lot, but you keep digging and the skellies appearing never end. This is the face of the Democrats..

[athanaric]

There is admittedly a small part of me that would like to see Trump win though for the same reason you stated. I guess it is the political scientist/sociologist/historian in me.

Some people just want to see the world burn...

[ggsimmonds]

Election and voting count (otherwise known as Democracy). Isn't Sanders losing to Hillary?



Hillary flirting with the Saudi Regime tells a lot, but you keep digging and the skellies appearing never end. This is the face of the Democrats..

Forgive me but I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. Yes Sanders is losing to Hilary.

[snuggans]

the white house correspondents dinner was hilarious, Obama kept it rated G but Larry Wilmore pissed off soooo many people in that room, the friction itself was funny itself. to see their unamused faces and even some republicants were audibly booing him sometimes. not even Wolf Blitzer was spared from the roasting, he sat there unamused. probably one of my favorite parts was when he was criticizing MSNBC's Morning Joe as being "so far up Trump's [behind] that they were about to start seeing Chris Christie". i nearly crapped myself, and i know that Joe Scarborough is going to take that SOO HARD because he usually flips out on set when anyone criticizes his show



on Trump: "is he at home, eating Trump Steaks, tweeting insults to Angela Merkel?" i started screaming

i recommend watching the Larry Wilmore part (language warning)

he owns everyone in that room so much that by the end barely anyone is laughing except the scattered black people looking at each other nervously and holding back, his online polling is bad, only 40% of people thought he was funny, i think he started losing people when he started talking about C-SPAN's viewership being clinically dead, probably egged on the Zodiac killer joke a bit too much as well, but his stuff was pretty good

pay attention Donald Trump fans, this is how you do political incorrectness with class. wow i have never seen so many pissed off powerful people in a room

[Helltroy]

I would not call tonight a "Roasting" The night was quite mild against Trump, not what I expected.



The "Where is Trump" Joke was the weakest of Obamas Jokes.
The Reaction he got from it was even Weaker then the joke Itself.
Wilmore was funny though.

[Prodromos]

Obama was fairly funny, but Wilmore was embarrassing.

[snuggans]

Obama was fairly funny, but Wilmore was embarrassing.

every trump supporter seems to be saying the same, seems like they're relieved he went easy and then they got really mad at Wilmore for telling the truth about everything

a.k.a they got butthurt at Wilmore because he's politically incorrect, which is the same reason why they like Trump, because he's politically incorrect : )

[Prodromos]

every trump supporter seems to be saying the same, seems like they're relieved he went easy and then they got really mad at Wilmore for telling the truth about everything

a.k.a they got butthurt at Wilmore because he's politically incorrect, which is the same reason why they like Trump, because he's politically incorrect : )

Yes I'm mad that there are people who vote, and put countless trillions of dollars, and billions of lives at risk, based on skin color. What are we insects? More proof that universal suffrage was a mistake.

[Roma_Victrix]

Wilmore was okay, but Obama killed it, I think. Still, it was fun watching most people in that room squirm in their seats from getting rightfully roasted.

Wilmore's bit about Ted Cruz was the best part of his shtick.

[ABH2]

Yes I'm mad that there are people who vote, and put countless trillions of dollars, and billions of lives at risk, based on skin color. What are we insects? More proof that universal suffrage was a mistake.

Non-PC doesn't mean talking about race or having anything to do with a dirty/clean act from a comedian perspective, but he was right in line with progressivism and playing the race game. The conservatives are going to see that and just realize that 70% of it or so was about race in some manner. He had some lines that I found funny. His delivery isn't the best.

At least it wasn't Colbert getting up there and just hectoring while nominally pretending to be a comedian. I mostly enjoyed it. He threw at least a few honest shots at Obama. On a side note, it's actually amazing just how much of the specific policies Colbert attacked Bush on still apply under Obama.

Either you are aware that this is an old fake ad that is making the rounds for the past month (meeting at the Janesville wastewater treatment plant.-"due to economic inequality" is already a dead giveaway- not to mention the "time card") and you are posting in the wrong thread, or you genuinely believe this not to be a prank which casts your judgement into a rather unfavorable category.

Most of the movements protesting Trump have a specific history of hiring protestors.

Hired protesters with the Black Lives Matter movement have started a #CutTheCheck hashtag and held a sit-in at the offices for the successor group to the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) in Missouri after the group allegedly stopped paying them.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...tart-cutthech/

DeWitt, Mich. — The protesters popping up at Mitt Romney’s rallies throughout Michigan Tuesday look like run-of-the-mill grassroots liberals — they wave signs about “the 99 percent,” they chant about the Republican’s greed, and they describe themselves as a loosely organized coalition of “concerned citizens.”
They’re also getting paid, two of the protesters and an Obama campaign official told BuzzFeed.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/mckaycoppin...Ad7#.pp2X68Qqa

They said this job might last 30 days, 90 days,” Horsey said. “I’ve been doing it ever since.”
Every business day, Horsey, 54, walks in a line with 30 or so other men and women, chanting slogans on behalf of the Mid-Atlantic Regional Council of Carpenters in downtown Washington, D.C. But Horsey and the others are not members of the union; they’re “hired feet” earning $8.50 an hour to chant about substandard wages and benefits at worksites where contractors are not using union labor.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2170880.html

A group calling itself the “Truth About Fast Food Forward” has released a video purporting to show the Service Employees International Union paying people to attend the Thursday fast food protests in New York City.

http://dailycaller.com/2014/12/06/vi...protest-video/



Hillary campaign hiring online trolls (Snuggans, I won't insinuate anything about you here):
http://usuncut.com/politics/clinton-super-pac-busted/

And the Craigslist ads you say have been 'debunked' are anything but. Here's Snopes 'debunking' the myth, but citing a lack of evidence:
http://www.snopes.com/craigslist-ad-trump-rally/

The Craigslist ads don't specifically cite the causes in question, but they are real and they are popping. Just all a coincidence. But then you get reports like this:

A march and demonstration against Trump at Trump Tower essentially fizzled Saturday when only 500 “protesters” of the promised 5000 showed up. Infiltrating the crowd, I learned most were from MoveOn or the Occupy movement. Soap was definitely in short supply in this crowd. Several admitted answering a Craig’s list ad paying $16.00 an hour for protesters.

http://dailycaller.com/2016/03/21/cl...s-not-sanders/

Of course, it's going to be complained that they aren't verifiable. Yet, the left, to include the movements involved in protesting Trump, all have a history of doing exactly what they are accused of here. That is verifiable.


Stephen Crowder's assistant tries to take part in the recent fight for $15 protests only to be given the runaround by the union organizers who never give him a time or place to show up to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8SGY5573Sk

Moveon.org has already come out and admitted helping to 'organize' the Chicago protests to include providing banners and signs. They also 'recruited' for it.

Watch the video of Trump protesters here trying to explain what they are protesting. Pay particular attention to the old white dude who has union gear on and is completely incoherent on top of being disheveled:
http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/03/3...are-protesting



Completely on the up and up. Maybe one day, the 'legitimate' media will bother to ask someone.

[sumskilz]

Looks like Al Jazeera is working hard to get Trump elected with their AJ+ account on Twitter, posting stuff like this:

"America is built on genocide of indigenous people"

Protestor sets fire to flag of Trump supporter #CAGOPConvention

[Prodromos]

"America is built on genocide of indigenous people"

I think I remember reading in one of your threads that 92% of Mexicans are European. I wonder when the myth of the Latin American native started. From what I know the natives consider themselves to be heavily discriminated against in Latin countries.

[sumskilz]

I think I remember reading in one of your threads that 92% of Mexicans are European.

Yeah, that's their paternal lineages, their maternal lineages are mostly Native American. Of course they owe their very biological existence to the same historical processes that shaped their culture. I assume identifying with the one aspect of their heritage more than the other goes back to their War of Independence and the nation-building efforts that followed, but it's been adapted to work with the whole historical grievance identity politics thing in the US. I get the impression that narrative isn't really promoted by American Hispanics whose family roots actually go back to the the Southwest pre-Mexican–American War, but more so by a subset of recent immigrants.