The 2016 presidential race (former: The race to the 2016 presidential race)

[Hobbes]

Yeah I mean we have people voting for actual neo-nazis in European countries.

[Ventos Mustel]

The US does have a rather concerning number of voters who decide their candidate based on "Who seems like they'd be the most fun at a party" though

Said voters also tend to be the ones who are themselves the least fun at parties, from my personal experience.

[snuggans]

The last appropriations bill I know he voted against was the NDAA which was a symbolic protest against the size of the military budget.

https://www.congress.gov/resources/d...r2016-military

Which bill did he vote against? Citation?

Military Construction and Veterans Affairs and Related Agencies Appropriations Act


let's just put it this way, if i was in congress and my vote was the same as Ted Cruz's and majority of Tea Party crazies, i'd be questioning my own existence.

[Derpy Hooves]

Speaking of veterans, I wonder what happened to all those memes about how Sanders was part of that VA committee in Congress for x years? As if that was a +, considering the VAA is still complete

[Gaidin]

Speaking of veterans, I wonder what happened to all those memes about how Sanders was part of that VA committee in Congress for x years? As if that was a +, considering the VAA is still complete

It's not like Sanders is the outsider people think he is. He's been in Washington longer than Hillary.

[snuggans]

congressman Lewis speaking about Hillary's viability as president, his own accomplishments during the civil rights movement and how he's barely been approached by Sanders, compared to the Clintons. you might remember him as the black congress guy that yells a lot.



Snopes: Was it really Bernie who marched with MLK in the photo that's been making the rounds?

[Napoleonic Bonapartism]

congressman Lewis speaking about Hillary's viability as president, his own accomplishments during the civil rights movement and how he's barely been approached by Sanders, compared to the Clintons. you might remember him as the black congress guy that yells a lot.



Snopes: Was it really Bernie who marched with MLK in the photo that's been making the rounds?

So he never saw the guy - what's the point here?

[Elfdude]

He's trying to sell the idea that the endorsement that sanders wasn't involved in the civil rights movement because a single guy didn't see him. Not to mention he's been in Hilary's pocket since day 1, why would sanders approach him?

http://www.latinorebels.com/2016/02/...-latino-vote2/

[Gaidin]

Meanwhile elfdude is busy trying to sell the idea that...uhhh...if you're establishment you're not legit.

All the while one of the biggest civil rights figures in American history, and got a cracked skull for his troubles, has been in Congress fighting for African American rights and has endorsed Hilary. What.

[Elfdude]

Meanwhile elfdude is busy trying to sell the idea that...uhhh...if you're establishment you're not legit.

Not what I said or what I was implying. Like I've stated numerous times I think hilary is #2 after sanders in terms of candidates, I just think that if you want to move the country towards one reality or another, starting in the middle isn't the best idea.

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...esidential-bid

He also endorsed clinton over Obama citing the same reasoning.

All the while one of the biggest civil rights figures in American history, and got a cracked skull for his troubles, has been in Congress fighting for African American rights and has endorsed Hilary. What.

So?

[Gaidin]

Not what I said or what I was implying. Like I've stated numerous times I think hilary is #2 after sanders in terms of candidates, I just think that if you want to move the country towards one reality or another, starting in the middle isn't the best idea.

So?

Just that I think if Bernie couldn't get Lewis, he took a hit to the gut. Whatever the hell you think.

[Elfdude]

Lewis endorsed clinton numerous times before Sanders was even a candidate. I don't even understand this because in October 2015 he endorsed clinton already, this is a separate endorsement and the shoddy reporting is odd. What message is the media trying to sell here?

[Lord Thesaurian]

Spoiler for elfdude, Hobbes: 

To be honest, I wonder why he chooses to label himself as such given the extent of anti-communist propaganda in the US. Even if he really believes himself to be some kind of socialist, wouldn't avoiding the "S" word be much better for him strategically?

Well, he has proudly identified as a socialist for decades. Running from it would only doom his candidacy. Plus, he doesn't seem to be suffering too much from the socialist label, at least not with Democrats. We'll see how much damage the GOP "red scare" machine can do to him in a general election if it comes to that, but at this rate, I wouldn't expect it to hurt him that much even then. Like I said, Americans love to hate, and they especially love to hate banks, politicians, and "ferners." So when Sanders says he's going to unleash hell on the banks, turn DC upside down and "bring American jobs back for American workers," that's going to resonate with a huge number of undecided (read: uninformed) voters.

Sanders has done a great job of making his radical positions look mainstream, and even virtuous. After all, who could possibly be against "free" healthcare and "free" college and "resurrecting the American middle class" by "punishing" Wall Street? Social cohesion plays in Sanders' favor here tremendously, because no one wants to look like an hole. For Exhibit A, see any internet comment section where Sanders supporters wag their fingers at Hillary supporters en masse. Voting for Sanders means voting for all the things that make people feel magnanimous and enlightened, and I wouldn't underestimate the power of that effect, socialist or no. Just like people voted for Obama in '08 because it "felt good" to vote for the first black president, any number of voters will line up for Sanders because his messaging makes them feel good about themselves.

Ultimately, in most viewpoints Sanders is pretty dead on with his views regarding the American public itself. On the other hand the same is not true with regards to trump, deporting illegals is not favorable, building a wall is not favorable, a flat tax is not favorable etc etc. If we look at just Democrats Sanders is FAR closer to the majority of Dems than Hilary. So yeah, keep pushing your idea that he's an extremist. In comparison to every first world country he's actually kind of conservative. Perhaps you should realize that it's your views which are fringe views and extremist. Sanders may have leveraged wealth inequality and campaign finance to be noticed but in a general election his views align tightly with the public.

Oh for God's sake give it a rest. Yes, Bernie Sanders is an extremist by any interpretation of the American political spectrum. Yes, he is third party (that's what Independent means). Yes, you, as a self described socialist, are an extremist by any interpretation of the American political spectrum. No, recounting basic facts and observations does not make me an extremist just because they clash with your worldview. No, whatever the rest of the world does or doesn't do does not make Sanders a "conservative" (). This is America, and Sanders is running for POTUS. No, this is not a case of "different definitions," you're just wrong.

He even refused to register as a Democrat because both parties are too conservative in his book. He barely would caucus with them, and even then, did it on his own terms, forming the "Congressional Progressive Caucus." He joined the Socialist Party of America in college and spent his young adult life writing folk songs and hanging out on Zionist communes for months at a time. Doesn't sound too much "like us" Americans in any traditional sense, unless by "like us" you mean "the original hipster." The guy was pretty ing extreme, even if half a life spent on Capitol Hill has mellowed him out a bit.

As for what "most Americans believe," those types of polls usually boil down to stuff like this

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Ask a broad question in a way that produces the desired answer, and though most subjects will have no idea what the interviewer is talking about, they will play along and give the answers they think are socially acceptable because they don't want to look stupid.

"Most" Americans can easily be persuaded to raise taxes on "the wealthy," and Americans have always hated bankers and trade. Doesn't make such emotive ethnocentrism remotely justifiable or desirable from a policy standpoint, which might explain why academia and public opinion seldom converge. Plus, if Sanders were even remotely vocal about his plan to raise income and payroll taxes across the board, I'm quite certain he and the public would diverge quite sharply.

"Most" Americans also agree with libertarians on social and economic issues from abortion and gay marriage to Wall Street, the bailouts, and American military adventurism. Doesn't make libertarians any less extreme. Convergence with public opinion on a la carte issues hardly has the sort of divine mandate level of weight you have assigned to it for argumentative purposes.

Being "moderate" involves maintaining bipartisan compromise and the status quo, not refusing to register with either party and basing your career on fostering your anti-establishment image. Sanders isn't only extremist by juxtaposition to, you know, the people who actually GOVERN the country. He has ALWAYS been extreme and he REVELS in his principled brand of extremism that adamantly refuses to align with either party, even when it comes to bipartisan legislation.

I have health insurance through my employer. I already went to college, and paid for it. I'm already saving for my own retirement. I already make $15 an hour. So, ideology aside, I have no reason to vote for Sanders unless I want my taxes raised and/or I want to forfeit America's geopolitical position to our enemies in favor of isolation. How many millions more fit my demographic? We can't fund a global military presence and a welfare state at the same time. Something's gotta give, and Bernie's made it clear that something will not be his overhaul of the social safety net.

[Elfdude]

Most Americans don't agree with libertarian philosophy. I suppose you could say that we're all a composite of several philosophies and you could definitely call decriminalization and etc libertarian policies but they're also progressive policies. Most Americans support Gay Marriage, most Americans are against Wall Street, most Americans are for the bailouts, and I haven't the slightest clue what you mean about extremism. As far as moderate is concerned, moderate is an adjective that tells you nothing without a qualifier. If you want to define moderate as relation to the status quo go for it. Your one and only tool in debates is semantic manipulation. Your exaggerations just make you look disingenuous and your explicit wrongness on so many points prove your inability to connect your posts to any sort of intellectual integrity.

Not that many fit your demographic actually. That's the problem.

[tgoodenow]

Nikkei lost 2100 points in three days.

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/mo...oss-since-2008

[snuggans]

Nikkei lost 2100 points in three days.

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/mo...oss-since-2008

Nikkei is one of the most volatile markets, and that also means it can gain very quickly, but if it was going to lose some weight, it would be now when its neighbor China is being wrecked by a strong dollar, incompetence with their technical trade systems malfunctioning and causing more fear as they threaten to arrest sellers, and the threat of the TPP, which was signed a week and a half ago. Japan should be taking China's manufacturing mantle, and combined with Silicon Valley, could become an even bigger tech-monster and further threaten China's tech and manufacturing exports.

the strong dollar is causing food prices to drop to pre-recession lows which hurts China's agricultural profits, which were already at risk from the TPP as US & Australian agriculture are keen on entering markets like Vietnam, Malaysia, Japan.

China is also gradually shifting from manufacturing to service, which, as the top export country in the world, is going to cause global slow-down, especially as they are excluded out of the TPP.

the market is adjusting to a more digital and connected world, what probably worked 8 years ago isn't working anymore, technology changes rapidly, companies die, and new ideas spring up.

why is China being excluded from this new digital world? because they are antidemocratic, thought-police, anti-liberty, and have a huge currency manipulation problem. it's why one of the things the TPP tries to do is ease censorship laws on imported media, it's why the TPP scares people when they hear about corporations being able to sue governments when they do authoritarian things that conflicts with business or the ability of their citizens to consume media.

Nikkei might as well start shedding what's not going to work in this new Pacific free trade zone, it's going to be severing some links from China for sure like many countries have.

Philippines, Taiwan, Thailand, Indonesia, Colombia, South Korea would also likely join in a second-wave of TPP talks.

[★Bandiera Rossa☭]

Support from Lewis would actually be something of a liability when it comes to many people in the newer generation of black activism. He's seen as something of a sellout, and Sanders has the support of people like Eric Garner's daughter.

[snuggans]

the embellishments start unraveling around Bernie's PR campaign:

Stop sending around this photo of ‘Bernie Sanders’

nope it's not the marching photo, it's a sit-in photo, and this time it's used by Bernie's campaign in ads and on his site. turns out its a classmate called Bruce Rapaport. not only are several captions mistaken but Bernie's ad narration alludes to Bernie's involvement while this photo is displayed, and even his own campaign strategist thought it was him, and that he would "double check", and that "Bernie remembers being there".. yeah just like he remembers being there a few feet behind MLK in Selma. he is starting to remind me of Ben Carson a little

For a candidate who garnered 92 percent of New Hampshire Democratic voters who said the most important trait for a candidate was that he or she be “honest,” the least his campaign could do is remove that photo from its Tumblr feed and stop physically placing him where he existed only in spirit.

not only is Sanders deficient in economic and foreign policy matters but even his strong point of trustworthiness and cool counter-culture radical rebel appearance is starting to melt under the heat. you know, for a guy who makes over $250,000 a year, he sure does try to highlight how humble he is, how crappy his car is, and that he really needs money, and that it's really of critical importance that nobody can donate to already wealthy candidates

[Gaidin]

Personally I don't know what makes that so fascinating anymore. I'm looking forward to the great tradition of Republican Dirty Tricks in South Carolina. That mess is going to be fun this year.

[Derpy Hooves]

What's this Republican Dirty Tricks you speak of? Genuinely curious