Deadliness

[Kirsch27]

Hey, I have been wondering why the late Hastati do not have any deadliness, when the late Principes with identical gladii do. Is there a reason behind this, or is it oversight? Personally I think hastati not having any deadliness really nerfs them pretty hard, my hastati usually take a ridiculous amount of casualties compared to principes, especially if I wait until the hastati are actually tired before cycling them. Deadliness gives staying power and the upper hand in a long slug-fest melee, without deadliness the Hastati are really very lackluster and I often see them losing 100 or more troops per unit if I do not upgrade them or withdraw them from the melee earlier than I normally would (active/winded rather than tired/very tired)

[KAM 2150]

Hastati are more offensive unit that is why they have higher chargé and speed compared to Principes. I will think about giving them the deadliness, but I also wanted to have this feeling of progression, so you start without any units with deadliness except Triarii in Phalanx, then you get deadliness for Principes, then you move to Marian and pretty much all have deadliness.

So far my Hastati had huge kill ratio, but I use them for flanking and breaking wavering units.

Of course if you want tchem to have it, you can go to land_units_tables/rome_land_units and look for Rom_hastati_late, then change their weapon from gladius2 to gladius3 It is of course savegame compatible.

[Zonac]

But then there would be no point to recruit priceps anymore xD hastati would be to price efficient xD and propably (but of corse would need testing) they would even kill late heavy celtic swords in a 1v1...
if it was by me it would be the other way round that priceps lose their deadliness because the exact fightingstyle which allows to use deadliness was invented in the very late polybian/beginning marius reform era.

[Krixux]

@ Zonac
I completely agree and KAM2150 is right ( as always)
Perhaps the "deadliness" should be a skill (or a by-product of a skill) triggered by Marius Reforms.
Indeed is too early in the game.

[KAM 2150]

That is also reflected by addition of shieldwall to legionares from Mariam and later reform That way they are starting to work a bit like a phalanx, since they have their weapon deadliness and defence bonuses from shieldwall. Principes are good at killing, but they lack the staying power of legionares, especially against cavalry

[gary]

In the db_ file what column is weapons_deadliness ? so i can change my self with pfm_ thanks.

[FlashHeart07]

In the db_ file what column is weapons_deadliness ? so i can change my self with pfm_ thanks.

Deadliness is called ap in the tables

[FlashHeart07]

In the db_ file what column is weapons_deadliness ? so i can change my self with pfm_ thanks.

Deadliness is called ap in the tables

[Goffredo85]

Well i don't know if giving deadliness to hastati will make them unbalanced, but tailoring their stats for using them as a flanking force is a bad thing from an historical point of view. If anything they should be used as shock troops tiring down enemy forces thanks to superior stamina (due to their young age) allowing the principes to deal the killing blow.

[KAM 2150]

And that is why they have high attack and chargé.