Erdogan and his Hypocrisy!!!!!!

[Mary The Quene]

Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan, meeting his Palestinian counterpart Mahmoud Abbas in Ankara on Monday, strongly criticized Israel's Benjamin Netanyahu for attending Sunday's memorial ceremony in Paris."How can a man who has killed 25,000 people in Gaza with state terrorism wave his hand in Paris, lilke people are waiting in excitement for him to do so? How dare he go there?" Erdogan said of the Israeli prime minister.

Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas also attended Sunday's ceremony; he and Netanyahu both took up prominent positions on either side of French President Francois Hollande during the march through the city."You should first give an account for the children and the women you have killed," the Turkish president said. Erdogan is known for his frequent and strong criticisms of Israeli government policy, despite close bilateral trade ties between the countries.

'Obvious hypocrisy'

Erdogan did not attend the ceremony, but Turkish Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu was present.
"The West's hypocrisy is obvious. As Muslims, we've never taken part in terrorist massacres. Behind these lie racism, hate speech and Islamophobia," Erdogan said. "Please, the administrations in those countries where our mosques are attacked need to take measures."
"Games are being played with the Islamic world, we need to be aware of this," Erdogan said.

Erdogan, whose prime minister spent Tuesday in Berlin rejecting allegations that Turkey had allowed one of the Paris gunmen's partners to move freely into Syria, instead questioned the French police response monitoring the attackers, who had recently served prison sentences.

"French citizens carry out such a massacre and Muslims pay the price. That's very meaningful … Doesn't their intelligence organization track those who leave prison?" he asked.

Turkey has long criticized its NATO partners for its cautious stance on the conflict in Syria and for siding with Israel over the Palestinians in the Middle East peace process. The West, for its part, has been critical of Turkey for allowing radicalized Europeans to cross the border into Syria.

http://www.dw.de/erdogan-blasts-neta...ack/a-18186839


The number one hypocrite of the world has spoken again about others!. On the one hand he accuses Israel of warcrimes in Gaza.....but he forgets his own actions!!!! It is Erdogan who allow Jihadists to freely cross the Syrian border, It is Erdogan who arms terrorists, It is Erdogan who allows terrorists to attack Syrian territority from Turkish soil!!! It is Erdogan who buys Oil from ISIS! I could go on about him but i'll leave it here.

The hypocrite number one who supported Al qaida!!!! He can complain what he wants about others but our Hypocrite himself has not the moral ground to do so at all......

[Serkelet]

Like all politicians Erdoğan just says what his citizens like to hear.

Both Netanyahu and him are criminal scum, if you ask me.

[Mary The Quene]

Like all politicians Erdoğan just says what his citizens like to hear.

Both Netanyahu and him are criminal scum, if you ask me.

Yup but what his voters like to hear is not really beneficial to Turkey if that means alienating his allies.....

[Serkelet]

I think his allies know well that it is all a play.

[Caligula's_Horse]

I think his allies know well that it is all a play.

Not really...

His allies (or former allies at this stage) like Egypt and Israel have maintained trade ties, because they don't want to take the economic hit, but everything else is out the window. Intelligence sharing, tourists, joint military exercises, arms sales, supporting Turkey diplomatically, and strengthening existing economic ties, that's all gone. The more traditional western powers aren't at that point yet, but they're getting there.
You can't go spitting in your allies' faces in public while maintaining good relations under the table. It doesn't work that way. Just because they know its done for reasons relating to Turkey's internal politics doesn't mean they can ignore being publicly insulted.

Besides, as time goes by, it looks more and more like Erdogan has gone above and beyond internal political needs in his rhetoric and actions both. It might have been a mask before, but if that's the case, its thoroughly fused into his flesh by now.

[Serkelet]

Not really...

His allies (or former allies at this stage) like Egypt and Israel have maintained trade ties, because they don't want to take the economic hit, but everything else is out the window. Intelligence sharing, tourists, joint military exercises, arms sales, supporting Turkey diplomatically, and strengthening existing economic ties, that's all gone. The more traditional western powers aren't at that point yet, but they're getting there.
You can't go spitting in your allies' faces in public while maintaining good relations under the table. It doesn't work that way. Just because they know its done for reasons relating to Turkey's internal politics doesn't mean they can ignore being publicly insulted.

Besides, as time goes by, it looks more and more like Erdogan has gone above and beyond internal political needs in his rhetoric and actions both. It might have been a mask before, but if that's the case, its thoroughly fused into his flesh by now.

I think you are underestimating the western hypocrisy. Specially the Israelian government's. For example, Netanyahu walking in Paris for free speech while killing journalists at home. He can play the offended act, but Turkey will still be his beloved ally in the area.

[Odenat]

Well, he learned hypocrisy from the best; European governments...

You first bomb Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Yemen, Sudan, Mali, give Palestine to Jews and then when Islamists pop up everywhere, you accuse Islam and Arabs of being barbaric.

You create Al-Queda and support it, when they were fighting against Russians they were freedom fighters, when they start fighting against you they become terrorists in overnight.

When Turkey closes its border to Syrian rebels, you accuse it to allow civilians to be slaughtered. When it opens its borders, you accuse it to allow jihadists to pass to Syria.

When PKK bombs a cafe, a school, an hospital, it's because Turkey mistreats Kurdish minority and we deserve it. When two muslims do the same thing at Paris, it's because Muslims are evil...

Let me ask you the same question as Erdoğan ; If Turkey invaded last year Greece and murdered 25.000 civilians, will Erdoğan be allowed to go to Paris ? Or, will he and Turkey be judged for war crimes ?

Then why the same is not applied to Netanyahu and Israel ? If it's not hypocrisy, then what is it ?

[Admiral Piett]

Well, he learned hypocrisy from the best; European governments...

You first bomb Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Yemen, Sudan, Mali, give Palestine to Jews and then when Islamists pop up everywhere, you accuse Islam and Arabs of being barbaric.

You create Al-Queda and support it, when they were fighting against Russians they were freedom fighters, when they start fighting against you they become terrorists in overnight.

When Turkey closes its border to Syrian rebels, you accuse it to allow civilians to be slaughtered. When it opens its borders, you accuse it to allow jihadists to pass to Syria.

When PKK bombs a cafe, a school, an hospital, it's because Turkey mistreats Kurdish minority and we deserve it. When two muslims do the same thing at Paris, it's because Muslims are evil...

Let me ask you the same question as Erdoğan ; If Turkey invaded last year Greece and murdered 25.000 civilians, will Erdoğan be allowed to go to Paris ? Or, will he and Turkey be judged for war crimes ?

Then why the same is not applied to Netanyahu and Israel ? If it's not hypocrisy, then what is it ?

Oh for sanity's sake, did we really need another thread hijack about how two wrongs make a right?

Oh look, the West has done some crappy things, that means we can make it even worse by supporting beheadings and suicide attacks on civilians!

[Dante Von Hespburg]

Well, he learned hypocrisy from the best; European governments...

You first bomb Iraq, Libya, Afghanistan, Lebanon, Yemen, Sudan, Mali, give Palestine to Jews and then when Islamists pop up everywhere, you accuse Islam and Arabs of being barbaric.

You create Al-Queda and support it, when they were fighting against Russians they were freedom fighters, when they start fighting against you they become terrorists in overnight.

When Turkey closes its border to Syrian rebels, you accuse it to allow civilians to be slaughtered. When it opens its borders, you accuse it to allow jihadists to pass to Syria.

When PKK bombs a cafe, a school, an hospital, it's because Turkey mistreats Kurdish minority and we deserve it. When two muslims do the same thing at Paris, it's because Muslims are evil...

Let me ask you the same question as Erdoğan ; If Turkey invaded last year Greece and murdered 25.000 civilians, will Erdoğan be allowed to go to Paris ? Or, will he and Turkey be judged for war crimes ?

Then why the same is not applied to Netanyahu and Israel ? If it's not hypocrisy, then what is it ?

Your kidding right? It's as if here my friend you don't know how 'states' work and the difference between 'states' and there 'populations'

So firstly i'd address your use of 'You'- entirely irrelevant since your making the typical mistake of generalizing the people of an area- 'The west' with the realpolitik and geopolitical goals of their 'states'. Unless of course your (and i assume/hope this isn't the case) working under the premise that we directly have a hand in shaping and ordering foreign policy. It's something you'll have to drop.

Secondly, your defense of Erdogan here is to blame 'Europeans' from a historical context? Who 'taught' him. Well that latter part is amusing. Since i'm pretty sure that ALL cultures are capable of producing people whom have dictatorial tendencies/a tyrannical ambition. What's interesting in Turkey is how he's basically appropriated and usurped the democratic process and media freedom to pull these kinds of moves (In terms of building his own palace, censoring the press, cutting down on other political parties etc).

Now also please do tell me how there's a direct link between Europeans and Erdogan's actions here. Your premise is this is Europes fault in this scenario (Also big place 'The West' and 'Europe' Would highly recommend you start defining the areas your talking about)- so how does it directly correlate. Did Erdogan ring Cameron for lessons in playing Dictator?

Israel and it's actions is a major subject of debate in the UK for instance- yet you seem hellbent on generalizing. Admiral Peitt said it right- two wrongs don't make a right here. Why should atrocities in the middle east caused by ISIS and co be forgiven/passed over just because NATO also killed people. Both should be addressed but neither are the way to answer another. Indeed if anything it could be argued if we adopted your position here that the 'West' should interfere because it took action in Iraq and A-stan and Libya- in which case if we want to be as naive as to apply morality to geopolitics it has a 'moral duty' to get involved on things it started/going on at it's borders.

[Flavius Julius Nepos Augustus]

'The west' with the realpolitik and geopolitical goals of their 'states'. U

I always felt that the west doesn't practise realpolitik.
Destable another country (or did they realy think they could make islamist Syria a puppet?) with the result of having terrorists at home..
But that will give the secret service a,d the army more mony?
I am quite pro Machiavelli but I fele sorry for the normal Syrians just want to live their daily lives

[Dante Von Hespburg]

I always felt that the west doesn't practise realpolitik.
Destable another country (or did they realy think they could make islamist Syria a puppet?) with the result of having terrorists at home..
But that will give the secret service a,d the army more mony?
I am quite pro Machiavelli but I fele sorry for the normal Syrians just want to live their daily lives

I think if you look at it, Syria is the result of the 'Arab Spring' and arguably a direct knock-on from interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan- the former being a classical example i'd say of geopolitical goals under the pretext of morality (WMD's anyone ). Even in Syria though towards the beginning you had various EU states and the US arming and backing certain groups of rebels to go against Assad, it just so happens that through that the rise of a group like ISIS wasn't really taken into consideration. The goal of helping to remove Assad in favour of a more pro-EU/US regime (due to aide in getting there) was desirable- the backfire from that though into what this has become is a slight mess to put it nicely. So i'd say all states practice realpolitik, but it's not in the same harsh form it once was. Perhaps 'Modern realpolitik' is a better way- states are looking out for their interests and doing what they perceive to be good for them in the short or long term.

In the same vein though, it's why i still fail to see the correlation between 'you guys did it, so it's ok for them to do it too' since it just doesn't work like that. Especially in this case of Erdogan who's basically eroding Turkey's functioning secular/Islamic (depending upon perspective) democracy in favour of greater and greater dictatorial appendages. I can't really see another European state going through the same process who's in direct contact with Erdogan to blame really as has been put forward.

[Derpy Hooves]

I think if you look at it, Syria is the result of the 'Arab Spring' and arguably a direct knock-on from interventions in Iraq and Afghanistan- the former being a classical example i'd say of geopolitical goals under the pretext of morality (WMD's anyone ). Even in Syria though towards the beginning you had various EU states and the US arming and backing certain groups of rebels to go against Assad, it just so happens that through that the rise of a group like ISIS wasn't really taken into consideration. The goal of helping to remove Assad in favour of a more pro-EU/US regime (due to aide in getting there) was desirable- the backfire from that though into what this has become is a slight mess to put it nicely. So i'd say all states practice realpolitik, but it's not in the same harsh form it once was. Perhaps 'Modern realpolitik' is a better way- states are looking out for their interests and doing what they perceive to be good for them in the short or long term.

-
The amount of aid coming to the rebels from the US and Europe was little pre-ISIS. That is why ISIS and the other extremists got powerful, the moderates were barely getting any aide, so they joined groups that have the funding and the weapons. It's a shame that they're focused on getting rid of Assad rather than at the same time providing a better alternative.

[hellheaven1987]

A hypocrite accuses another hypocrite? Why am I not surprised...

[white-wolf]

Erdoğan is Hypocrite, that is right. However, it does not change the hypocrite of West. A broken clock could show correct time twice a day.

[Mithridates II the Great]

Erdogan is dreaming to make another ottomon empire and his politics in middle east especially Syria is the proof .

The biggest paradox is that , The west supports terrorists in Syria but oppose them and their followers in Iraq , Yemen , Afghanistan , Pakistan and recently in the west itself .

The West is responsible for every mess and brutality in middle east and this is a fact.

[Caligula's_Horse]

Erdogan is sreaming to make another ottomon empire and his politics in middle east especially Syria is the proof .

The biggest paradox is that , The west supports terrorists in Syria but oppose them and their followers in Iraq , Yemen , Afghanistan , Pakistan and recently in the west itself .

The West is responsible for every mess and brutality in middle east and this is a fact.

Right, I'm sure the breakup of the Ottoman empire had nothing to do with it, nor did religious or nationalist extremists.
Surely its all the West's faults. More rational minds might try to mislead you to think it was result of colonial era policies made by people since long dead, and that the western powers that had no stake in the middle east are also free of charge, but don't you believe them...

The West isn't a homogenous entity anymore then "The East", or "The North" or "The Terrorists". And the middle east's problems are so many and so diverse that trying to track them all down to a single source is a fool's errand.

[justicar5]

Erdogan is dreaming to make another ottomon empire and his politics in middle east especially Syria is the proof .

The biggest paradox is that , The west supports terrorists in Syria but oppose them and their followers in Iraq , Yemen , Afghanistan , Pakistan and recently in the west itself .

The West is responsible for every mess and brutality in middle east and this is a fact.

Responsible is pushing it, not helping is more reasonable position.

[Mithridates II the Great]

Responsible is pushing it, not helping is more reasonable position.

[Dante Von Hespburg]

The West is responsible for every mess and brutality in middle east and this is a fact.

I love blanket statements...

Now i want you to be very sure when you answer this mate. Quantify yourself. Did you just say that the West is responsible for EVERY mess and brutality in the middle east? EVERY?

Take your time in quantifying yourself here.

[Serkelet]

I love blanket statements...

Now i want you to be very sure when you answer this mate. Quantify yourself. Did you just say that the West is responsible for EVERY mess and brutality in the middle east? EVERY?

Take your time in quantifying yourself here.

You're absolutely right. Not every brutal action in the middle east bears western responsibility. Just around 90% of them.

But just to specify, I actually mean "western governments and the lobbies behind responsibility". Not "western normal people" responsibility, which we usually are a bunch of gullible fools.