[Development] First Faction Map concepts

[mzlati]

ohh! sorry had another question how it's gonna be possible to stick evil factions together and act under will of sauron. and then the other way around how is possible to consolidate good factions and fight for one cause. couse there is no crusade and jihad mechanics?

[Mr.Jox]

Maybe manipulations with campaign scripts and alliance/diplomatic options.

[total relism]

It was smth like alpha or even pre-alpha map. I think we can separate ents as a single unplayable faction.

will the ents be able to be controlled by player in any way? they are my fav unit.

[Mr.Jox]

No idea yet. I don't think ents are important faction to be able to play for player.
Maybe we will release some additional submods which will include all factions unlock.

[wangrin]

Attila Assembly Kit will not allow to modify campaign map, apart for some aesthetic or minor modifications.
It will not be possible to modify borders, move settlement, etc.

• Terry:
  
  • Allows the editing of campaign map aesthetics (Global heightmap, placement of props and lighting).
  • However, does not enable editing of:
    
    • Settlement positioning.
      
    • Tree positioning.
    • Border positioning.
    • Campaign logic (pathfinding and collision).
    
    
  • Allows editing of outfield tiles for battle tiles.
  • Editing of battle location areas (determines the global location of specific battle types, e.g. ambush maps).
  
  

• Terrain Raw Data:
  
  • Allows you to determine what battle maps load in for different campaign map locations (by editing battle tile map within image editing software).
  • Allows you to change the aesthetics of the campaign map (by editing the campaign tile map within image editing software) – via editing the location of the individual tiles which combine to make up the campaign map.
  • Editing of already existing battle and campaign tiles.
  
  

source : Attila Assembly Kit

What's up guys!

[...]

TERRY (Campaign Editor)

• Heights
• Prop Placement - We will be able to add new props as well.
• Textures
• Lighting

Here are a few images of TERRY, I apologize for the poor quality some better ones will be posted later.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

There will be some full write ups hopefully tomorrow from modders present. My initial impressions of the new tools are that they are going to open up a lot of options for creative modders to make some excellent maps. You can tie specific campaign tiles to specific battle maps, so every city could have its own map in theory. As you know there are limitations to editing the campaign map such as city placement and water/land recognition. However, you can fully customize the terrain, lighting, props and effects, such as adding new wonders, changing rivers and coastlines etc. I think some modders are going to be able to do more than we expect with these tools by working around the limitations. The simple fact that we can customize battle maps to campaign tiles makes tons of mods possible by changing the battle map that is loaded rather than the fixed one for a given city.

The battle map editor is extraordinary, really no other way I can describe it. You can import custom building models/variants and really make any kind of field, siege or fortification maps you can imagine. On a side note units will fight under columns and in open building spaces, Attilas buildings look incredible, and civilians can be customized and altered to change aggression levels and what buildings they are around or flee to. You can even customize battle maps for siege stages to show damage from that.

I know many wanted full map editing tools but Attilas map system is not like Shogun 2. Massive development time would have to be devoted to giving access to the base logic in any sort of tool. It simply isn't feasible as it, like some other things like ui, is tied to the base code structure. Perhaps one day in the future, but for now the time required to devote to it would major cut into development time of core game mechanics for actual release products.

I have no problem saying that, this being my first summit, I was happy to find a really focused and attentive group of developers who worked with us all day. They were very interested in our specific feedback about both Rome 2 mod functionality and desired things for Attila. They are working on improving mod tool access and hope to expand that access over time. It is a long process because it has to be done alongside their actual development and will always have limitations based on what is tied to their internal systems.

I have no doubt I will be called an apologist by some but I hope this community can look past much of the anger that now pervades the forums. I went in with no expectations and came out seeing 2 great map editors so it seems like a win to me. I understand the frustration about full campaign tools, but I truly believe we can make some very interesting scenarios with some creativity and clever tricks to bypass some of the limitations. That is what modding has always been about for me: taking what we have and finding ways to do more. Heck, when I first modded Rome 2 we used community created tools only. I look at any expansion of official tools as a positive.

So, the new Assembly kit should not allow to create a Middle Earth campaign map.
I don't know if CA will also send Campaign Map data like they've done for TWS2, but I doubt about it. Moreover, even if having access to raw campaign map data could help to understand esf, it doesn't mean to be able to edit it.

[Mr.Jox]

I think the map itself is a model. they promised to give an example of all data files, so if map will be included we will need terry only for some land terrain recoloring(like mordor).

[wangrin]

It sill be also necessary to keep cities locations.

Yeah, you would literally see an army marching across what looked like water. From what we've been told and seen about the availability and access the tools have, the logic itself is fixed. A landmass is a landmass, a sea is a sea, and that's how it will stay. You could completely rework the look and feel of the campaign map into something else, but you would need to remain within the confines of Europe and the Middle East as defined by Attila.

That being said, the tools we have are very powerful and there is a lot to expore.

[Mr.Jox]

Okay I see. I just hope for smth like was in Shogun2. CA released their max map file, no?

[wangrin]

I don't know. We will see when the Attila Assembly Kit will be released.

[Vikus van de Merwe]

Yes, that's the only option. But at the time it seems that we'll get maybe more possibilities in modding than in Rome 2, especially with a look at battle-map creation and building integration.
Sound modding will be another thing which will take a bigger part in our decision but if this will get possible for Attila, too, then there are much advantages to move to Attila I suppose.

[Privatecamping]

Very Nice I would do it the same :=)

[tyrgalon]

I suggest you guys take a look at the MOS submod for TATW, it has a pretty good balance on everything in my experience.
Also I wouldn´t make the major factions rely on client states/satrapys, they are way to unreliable and would make the important factions unable to field epic armies against each other imo. Just check how pathetically little money you get from client states/satrapys in Rome 2.

[Mr.Jox]

Current Idea is to split factions which have some different points and regionsof factions which located too far from capital(Mordor and Morgul as example for first and Mordor and Dol Guldur for example for second).

[Privatecamping]

I agree with @tyrgalon that there should be a constant good vs evil fight and fewer client states.. I would say that it is easyer for you guys too if u dont spend time with these minor client states that dont mean a lot

[DIABLONL]

With client states more armies can be kept(army limit, income boost per faction) and the ai can't handle being a big nation most of the time, so I would prefer more client states. They don't have to be fleshed out they can just be clones of the playable factions.
Lots of small tribes for the orcs of misty mountains would also bring some variation in that area. I imagine there would be some infighting between those orcs and that they would only unite if they face a big threat ( the dwarves or elves), the confederation option would work well here( if it's still in Attila), the infighting doesn't have to be out of control if they have a big cultural affinity bonus with each other.

[TurgonOfGondolin]

First of all good luck with your project!!!!!i am very excited about that, i saw the map and i think it's fine
i have two questions
1) finally this would be a mod for ROME 2 , for ATTILA of for both?
2) do you believe that this project will be completed since the ending of 2015 or it will take more than a year?

[Vikus van de Merwe]

Thank you TurgonOfGondolin!

To 1) : This is also a question for us developers. We decide with the knowledge of which game is better / more modable and it seems that we're near a move to Attila but it's of course not the final decision now, only a first impression!
To 2) : To this question I can't / don't want to give a concrete date or time frame. It could be possible that there will be finished an Pre-Alpha or Alpha version but this doesn't mean that it will be accessible for the whole community at this time.

[TurgonOfGondolin]

oook
i am anxiously looking forward for further developments

[gosho]

Hi,
This project is amazing i can wait!!
I dont know if you already know this site, but can be good source of concepts for the map and settlements:

http://www.lindefirion.net/maps/

Good work!!

[sequx]

Its just an opinion but seperating Morgul from Mordor would be really BAD! Mordor fans (like me) would be really disapointed. You have a nice idea there but it shouldnt be for Morgul...