Combat bonus for barbarians in the woods?

**Munch727** · January 12, 2015, 02:10 PM

Why don't barbarians have a combat bonus when fighting in the woods? You could imagine that barbarians had an advantage figthing romans and other formation based troops in the woods. I believe they had such bonus in Rome.

**ablebodie** · January 12, 2015, 02:17 PM

In Rome 2 & DeI, it's kind of integrated into faction bonuses and army traditions, where barbarians have a much easier time obtaining bonuses to ambushing. Not only that, barbarians have many more units with battle map stealth and/or the ability to remain hidden in grass, which heavier troops Rome/Greece/Diadochi/Eastern factions don't have.

**Munch727** · January 12, 2015, 03:00 PM

Ambushes are nice. I really enjoy them but in a normal battle what does stealth do for you if you lose when you go into combat anyway?

**rjacko10** · January 12, 2015, 03:24 PM

Instead of a bonus for barbarians in the woods, how about a restriction for formations in the woods. How effective can a pike phalanx be in wild woodlands?

**Munch727** · January 12, 2015, 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by rjacko10

Instead of a bonus for barbarians in the woods, how about a restriction for formations in the woods. How effective can a pike phalanx be in wild woodlands?

Also an option :-) And yeah, there would be too many obstacles to maintain a prober formation in woodlands.

**KAM 2150** · January 12, 2015, 03:28 PM

There are no tables that would make certain formation better/worse in the woods.

**Munch727** · January 12, 2015, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by KAM 2150

There are no tables that would make certain formation better/worse in the woods.

Hm, I see. But woods still affect speed, so is it possible to manipulate with Attack dmg for certain units ?

**Chris P. Bacon** · January 12, 2015, 03:40 PM

If anything the woods nerf barbarians. With the charge being more important for them the slower speed in woods results in a weaker charge.

**Munch727** · January 12, 2015, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Chris P. Bacon

If anything the woods nerf barbarians. With the charge being more important for them the slower speed in woods results in a weaker charge.

Well, in thick wood I believe there is a speed nerf to all units? Thou I believe that woods are more idealistic for 1v1 fighting in which barbarians were superior to units trained in formation.

**KAM 2150** · January 12, 2015, 03:43 PM

From what I saw so far, woods change only speed, maybe there are othes stuff like better arrow protection, but if woods will affect attack, they will affect attack of ALL units.

**KAM 2150** · January 12, 2015, 03:51 PM

That is why all barbarian sword infantry has bonus vs other infantry.

**Butan** · January 12, 2015, 03:54 PM

Barbarian already have a lot of specific stuff from traits and skills etc...

**Matmannen** · January 12, 2015, 05:05 PM

Woods are kind of stifling the barbarians. In vanilla the barbarians rely on their charge, I am not sure how true this is in DeI, perhaps KAM could help us understand what are the strengths of the barbarian armies.

As discribed eralier in a diffrent thread the power of a charge in Rome II is decided by four factors: Unit mass, unit speed (that is speed during the charge in question), units charge bonus and melee attack. To raise either of these is to improve the charge. So how does woods sifle barbarian charges? Well units only move at 60% of it regular speed in woods (in vanilla, not sure of DeI, again perhaps KAM could clarify), this lessens the charge.

If the barbarians do rely on their charge as in vanilla, and we want to improve their chances in woods, perhaps, if possible, we could lessen the amount of speed those individual units loose in forests, sadly I have no idea if this is possible...

**KAM 2150** · January 12, 2015, 05:18 PM

Speed nerf is the same for all units.

In DeI one of the strengths of barbarians is their high attack, chargé and in some cases numbers. So in other words, the start to suffer more and more with prolonged combat, especially against Romans, since Greeks tend to be a bit more fragile. Also barbarians have small differences between them, Iceni have the best chargé, Gauls toughness, Iberians melee skills etc.

**Krixux** · January 13, 2015, 02:23 AM

Ok
with all due respect even the Teotoburg forest is a question whether or not Germans won out of superior skills.

(frowning )

Arminius was a Roman Citizen of Equestrian rank, albeit a German national.
His Roman military education, his understanding of the strength and weakness of the Legion in particularly heavily forested areas are the sole (!) secret behind the legendary defeat of Varus and his legions.
Even the road taken by the Legions was the result of Arminius assuring Varus that that was the best and safest way.

Without him, a Roman trained officer, the story would have been quite different , since Varus was reluctant to move trough the forest.

Germans on their own at that particular time and place would have had a very hard time to overcome the strength of the Legions and lacked the tactical and strategic understanding that Arminius as an officer had.

Plus the situation is the result of Varus trusting (!) a fellow comrade, citizen and ranking officer...
Thus No, no special forest abilities.

And in hand to hand combat the Romans were masters; ...again do not forget that their defeat was caused by treason , understanding of Roman tactics, and isolating the units (strategic) and annihilating them one by one with overwhelming numbers (tactic) all "qualities" of Arminius, a Roman...