Page 6 of 10 FirstFirst 12345678910 LastLast
Results 101 to 120 of 198

Thread: Forum Closed

  1. #101

    Default Re: Forum Closed




    Quote Originally Posted by GrnEyedDvl View Post
    1. Numerous occasions of people abusing other people on MCC, sometimes led by some ex MCC staff members. It was completely ridiculous and when I came down on the Dwarves for it their response was "well then we will take our faction posting someplace else". Which they obviously did as their posting on the site pretty much went to 0 especially inside their faction forum.
    In defense of the good name of the Dwarven Empire, a single now ex-member of the Dwarves creating a thread in the Dwarven faction forums insulting a then-member-of-staff does not mean all the Dwarves thought the same way. We all condemned said individual for doing such a thing but at the time we thought the faction forums were private and that administrators couldn’t peak into them so after expressing our distaste to the post we continued with our lives thinking we could put such a thread behind us. Unfortunately, we were completely wrong to think that a place meant for factions to discuss internal affairs, plan faction related projects, and strategize as a faction would be barred from administration.

    Additionally, it was disturbing to find out that even if an administrator who had access to the faction forums didn’t intentionally enter those forums, if any such admin was looking at the “most recent activity” section and if the timing was right, they could see who posted, where they posted, and the first line or two of the post which compromised those faction forums even more.

    The fact of the matter is that our community is small compared to others and when you have players of said community in administration, there is a concern for bias especially with the extensive history shared among the players of this community. With that said, when photographic proof was taken showing the insulted then-member-of-staff viewing a thread discussing Dwarven naval doctrine such as tactics and ship designs among other things and not the thread insulting said staff member, it obviously angered and confused my faction. So, it should not be surprising that my faction decided to refrain from posting in that faction forum and instead decided to discuss topics in Skype.

    Elite69


  2. #102
    Lord Romanus III's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    America
    Posts
    3,945

    Default Re: Forum Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Squid View Post
    I can pick over a dozen different posts in this thread where the attitude is the same, that was the just the most egregious example of it. I don't have to look to hard for examples over the minecraft server to find that same attitude.
    I can go to the Rome II subforum and pull up plenty of or whiny posts, Squid, we're just being singled out because we're a smaller group that GED got directly involved with. I'm not overly upset with being kicked from TWC, but GED knows (by knowing me very well) that I want him to answer for his mistakes and figure out that this was not a one way street. He disliked how we acted, but really fails to account for himself adequately. Also, regarding "attitude," do look at Poach's comment below that I quoted and the question he asks at the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poach View Post
    I would agree that taking evidence from a thread such as this is a biased approach. A community that's stayed together for four years, across more than a dozen map restarts, and who have integrated to a point that they interact well beyond Minecraft (my own examples: I play EU4, WoW, and EVE with people I met on MC right now, I have played a half dozen other games with people met here, and I've met three of them in real life) have summarily been told they're a foul group of people unworthy of a home on TWC, and whose mere existence, once discovered, provoked such anger that the one responsible now holds the honour (as I know it) of being the only openly fired Admin on TWC.

    You expect these people to react with calm?

  3. #103
    Squid's Avatar Opifex
    Patrician Artifex Technical Staff

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Frozen waste lands of the north
    Posts
    17,737
    Blog Entries
    3

    Default Re: Forum Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Romanus III View Post
    Also, regarding "attitude," do look at Poach's comment below that I quoted and the question he asks at the end.
    When it comes to how people react there's a large distance between calm and the the crap being thrown around here. So no I don't necessarily expect people to react as if nothing happened, but I'd also expect better than what I've seen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poach View Post
    I would agree that taking evidence from a thread such as this is a biased approach. A community that's stayed together for four years, across more than a dozen map restarts, and who have integrated to a point that they interact well beyond Minecraft (my own examples: I play EU4, WoW, and EVE with people I met on MC right now, I have played a half dozen other games with people met here, and I've met three of them in real life) have summarily been told they're a foul group of people unworthy of a home on TWC, and whose mere existence, once discovered, provoked such anger that the one responsible now holds the honour (as I know it) of being the only openly fired Admin on TWC.

    You expect these people to react with calm?
    No one, not even GED is saying your community cannot exist GED is just saying that it isn't going to exist on his servers. As for being the only openly fired member of hex, your being let go was not mentioned in this thread until you called his hiring and firing policies into account.
    Under the patronage of Roman_Man#3, Patron of Ishan
    Click for my tools and tutorials
    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." -----Albert Einstein

  4. #104

    Default Re: Forum Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Squid View Post
    When it comes to how people react there's a large distance between calm and the the crap being thrown around here. So no I don't necessarily expect people to react as if nothing happened, but I'd also expect better than what I've seen.



    No one, not even GED is saying your community cannot exist GED is just saying that it isn't going to exist on his servers. As for being the only openly fired member of hex, your being let go was not mentioned in this thread until you called his hiring and firing policies into account.
    On my phone so I cant do any fancy multi-quoting so bear with me as I stick everything I want to say into one paragraph.
    First of all about the way people have been reacting in this thread, youre right, some people have been acting inappropriately and in ways that violate the ToS. What you seem to keep missing is the people after them that condemn their actions and ask others not to follow in their footsteps. A community is not defined by its most agressive/pissed off member and doing so is just over generalising us all.
    Secondly if you have a problem with these people why are they not infracted in accordance with the ToS of twc instead of forcing a larger group of people off the forums as a result of the actions of the few, seems a tad unfair to me. As far as I knkw this is the first time a whole group of people has been forbidden from using twc forums before and it doesn't set a good precedent.
    I dont blame GEDfor maybe being pissed at us or being pissed that the money he spent on mcc was wasted, the one time I talked to him he seemed like a nice enough bloked that was trying to improve the server (with the modpack) what I fail to understand is why this is so out of the blue. We all thought he'd be fine with us playing here again, there hadnt been any warning signs that this kind of9f thing would happen.

    Also in response to you saying that poach only just now brought up his own firing, some9ne mentioned it on the first page.

  5. #105
    Poach's Avatar Civitate
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    26,760

    Default Re: Forum Closed

    I believe you're misunderstanding my post.

    The community comes from TWC, most of us being TWC regulars and coming into the community via TWC. Others joined on MCC, a sister site to TWC. The community, having lost MCC to technical problems, came back here, their original home.

    They were promptly, and angrily, kicked out. Telling anyone to "get out, you're not welcome here", even if it is your house, causes insult. I wasn't drawing attention to my own situation for the sake of it, I was using it to further illustrate that point: these guys weren't only told "get out and never come back", but were then witness to the person letting them in being stripped of the keys for allowing it in the first place. "Get out, never come back, and the guy that sanctioned it is going down for this" is one hell of a strong message, and one hell of a deep insult to the group.

    Thus, my point becomes again: are you expecting people to react calmly to being told such a thing? Would you shrug and walk away with a smile on your face if you went back to your old place looking for a roof over your head only for the landlord to show up a while later and not only kick you out, but take the keys off the guy that let you in? That's a pretty serious slight against you personally, is it not? It's not about the guy having the keys taken off him, it's about how much the landlord hates you that he'd do that in response.

    Now, don't misunderstand me again. I'm not saying GED's not entitled to his opinions and his actions, because it's his mind and his site, I'm simply pointing out that you can't reasonably expect the people here to not take offence at being so forcefully and so crushingly shown what GED thinks of them.

    Going back to the original point, taking examples from this thread as typical of the community is deeply unfair. I've already explained how close-knit we are, how we've become much more than just an MC community, and how some of us have gone beyond knowing each other purely over the internet. It's like going to a funeral and deciding everyone there are emotional wrecks every day of the week because they're going through grief at the moment you saw them.
    Last edited by Poach; January 13, 2015 at 07:11 PM.

  6. #106

    Default Re: Forum Closed

    Haha, you've apparently never seen a good internet crap fling before, then. Given that y'all have implemented collective punishment, which is... well, yeah, I don't think I need to explain the dubious reasoning and morality of such an action in any circumstance, people have been fairly restrained. (Granted with exceptions, but you cannot expect homogenous reaction given the severity of the punishment, its inherently arbitrary nature, the lack of any prior warning on the behalf of the judge, and its sudden and jarring implementation. And really that's what it comes down to: the expectation of a calm, homogenous response from a multitude of people and personalities, despite, well, the basic understanding of the diversity of human nature.)

    And on the last point, on the existence of the community, that is absolutely semantics. The community is drawn from members of the forum and it is its point of origin, its home, and its main source of recruitment which is necessary to maintain the continuation and health of the server. If he cannot cause the community that he apparently virulently hates go out of existence, with the act of closing down our hub of communication, recruitment, hell, even the history that we've accumulated together over years of gameplay, well that's really doing everything in his power to try.

    But in any case I doubt anything I or anyone else will say will change y'er minds.

  7. #107
    SonofPeverel's Avatar GLORY TOTHE BROTHERHOOD
    Moderator Emeritus Content Emeritus

    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    1,219

    Default Re: Forum Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by LukasVerdansky View Post

    I do wish to hear from the former administration of MCC on the events that transpired and their thoughts and views on the termination of MCC's chapter as well as the Minecraft community on TWC. There's a lot to answer for, and I don't believe that our last memory of them ought to be that of incompetence.
    There has been a negative attitude permeating through the community since before we moved to MCC. At the time this was a small fraction and not really a major issue. However, imo, without the broad coverage of TWC this attitude grew and festered throughout a great deal of the community. Personal issues and dislike grew into major problems for the server, staff, and community; and at some points influential players, current and past staff, and respected members were involved, which only made matters worse. Until these issues are resolved or forgotten it will be difficult to gain traction moving forward.

    Since its inception, there have been people willing to give massive amounts of time and effort in order to create a better playing experience for the community. Regardless of recent opinion all changes to the server have been based on the opinions of the community: from the first armor rewrite and resource points to the custom plugin and the towny map. Obviously the latter two examples were too large to accomplish and took too long for any progress to be made. However, often times a toxic environment left it almost impossible to recruit and motivate staff. By the launch of the last map there was a majority of people almost hoping the map would fail. I have believed, and still believe, the community is, or can be, more mature and unified than that.

    When the split to MCC was announced it was pitched to become the TWC of minecraft. However, soon after the move some admins became busy and had to resign, leaving a staff who, largely, were not involved in the decision to move. This led to the site under preforming, which is, imo, no one person or groups fault. It just is. For some time the idea of moving the community back to the TWC forums has been discussed in great length.

    (The following is my personal take on it and I, like everyone, may not know everything. Also I hope to not overstep)
    At the time of the last launch former and current MCC staff met to try and decide what to do. It was determined that we should stay and try and salvage MCC and one more map, at least for a time. It was then that RL caused GED and several others to be away, and many issues arose with the site and server. The MCC staff did try and fix what they could but somethings were out of reach, obviously. At GEDs departure he had just purchased new hardware for the community to host the server and left with the thought MCC would be given a chance.

    Fast forward to the other day: GED returns and sees the MCC server abandoned after he had secured new hardware for the community, and the group moved into a private server using the TWC forums. We all know the angst and negative attitudes which were fostered at the last MCC launch, and no doubt this had an effect on the perception of the issue.

    At the same time, 99% of the community had very little understanding of the matter and undoubtedly saw the move to twc as some sort of official response to the MCC site errors. While I dont excuse the behavior (and honestly I thought some of you were past this) of many people in this thread, the lack of understanding is expected to a point. That being said, I think every person that has been in this community for any amount of time knows that GED has floated the financial burden for the server and sites for a long time and as such would extend him the benefit of the doubt, at least until things are more understood.

    Often times people say and act more hostile to the people they know than they ever would be to a stranger. As such I would like to see everyone take a step back and look at this situation from the other side and realize we are a community who possibly has become too used to dealing shortly with one another, and move past this. No one person knows all the directives, opinions, or even facts of this matter and as such we need to work together to salvage the reason we all play here, and why I would let my dinner get cold writing this post

    Each side could continue to go back and forth over every grievance, but I would advise we drop the issue and work on a solution moving forward, rather than continually debate real and perceived issues.

    * I realize I could go into extreme detail, but I dont think this is needed or wise.
    Last edited by SonofPeverel; January 13, 2015 at 08:26 PM.

    HOUSE OF HADER

  8. #108
    Tribunus
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Ascension, St. Helena
    Posts
    7,336

    Default Re: Forum Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Squid View Post
    When it comes to how people react there's a large distance between calm and the the crap being thrown around here. So no I don't necessarily expect people to react as if nothing happened, but I'd also expect better than what I've seen.
    While it does feed back in to the earlier point you raised, regarding "You can't censor Steam!!!", there is likely a lot of measured conversation happening elsewhere. Right now however there is only a single public space for "anger" to be appropriately displayed, this thread is a lens and moreso because there are no other means of visible communication available.

  9. #109
    Nerva's Avatar Ordinarius
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Cali, Colombia
    Posts
    792

    Default Re: Forum Closed

    Just look at the wiki Squid (if it is still somewhere reacheable) you'll see there who we truely are.

    Do you like Minecraft? Do you like diplomacy games? Join TWC's Community Minecraft server:
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forum...1649-Minecraft

  10. #110

    Default Re: Forum Closed

    The least GED could do is allow us to archive the wiki. A lot of work went into the construction of that thing, and regardless of his views on our poisonous community, that should not be something lightly tossed aside. It is the beacon in representing the best to come out of MCC over the years, and it would be a shame to simply delete everything out of spite.

  11. #111

    Default Re: Forum Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by SonofPeverel View Post
    There has been a negative attitude permeating through the community since before we moved to MCC. At the time this was a small fraction and not really a major issue. However, imo, without the broad coverage of TWC this attitude grew and festered throughout a great deal of the community. Personal issues and dislike grew into major problems for the server, staff, and community; and at some points influential players, current and past staff, and respected members were involved, which only made matters worse. Until these issues are resolved or forgotten it will be difficult to gain traction moving forward.

    Since its inception, there have been people willing to give massive amounts of time and effort in order to create a better playing experience for the community. Regardless of recent opinion all changes to the server have been based on the opinions of the community: from the first armor rewrite and resource points to the custom plugin and the towny map. Obviously the latter two examples were too large to accomplish and took too long for any progress to be made. However, often times a toxic environment left it almost impossible to recruit and motivate staff. By the launch of the last map there was a majority of people almost hoping the map would fail. I have believed, and still believe, the community is, or can be, more mature and unified than that.

    When the split to MCC was announced it was pitched to become the TWC of minecraft. However, soon after the move some admins became busy and had to resign, leaving a staff who, largely, were not involved in the decision to move. This led to the site under preforming, which is, imo, no one person or groups fault. It just is. For some time the idea of moving the community back to the TWC forums has been discussed in great length.

    (The following is my personal take on it and I, like everyone, may not know everything. Also I hope to not overstep)
    At the time of the last launch former and current MCC staff met to try and decide what to do. It was determined that we should stay and try and salvage MCC and one more map, at least for a time. It was then that RL caused GED and several others to be away, and many issues arose with the site and server. The MCC staff did try and fix what they could but somethings were out of reach, obviously. At GEDs departure he had just purchased new hardware for the community to host the server and left with the thought MCC would be given a chance.

    Fast forward to the other day: GED returns and sees the MCC server abandoned after he had secured new hardware for the community, and the group moved into a private server using the TWC forums. We all know the angst and negative attitudes which were fostered at the last MCC launch, and no doubt this had an effect on the perception of the issue.

    At the same time, 99% of the community had very little understanding of the matter and undoubtedly saw the move to twc as some sort of official response to the MCC site errors. While I dont excuse the behavior (and honestly I thought some of you were past this) of many people in this thread, the lack of understanding is expected to a point. That being said, I think every person that has been in this community for any amount of time knows that GED has floated the financial burden for the server and sites for a long time and as such would extend him the benefit of the doubt, at least until things are more understood.

    Often times people say and act more hostile to the people they know than they ever would be to a stranger. As such I would like to see everyone take a step back and look at this situation from the other side and realize we are a community who possibly has become too used to dealing shortly with one another, and move past this. No one person knows all the directives, opinions, or even facts of this matter and as such we need to work together to salvage the reason we all play here, and why I would let my dinner get cold writing this post

    Each side could continue to go back and forth over every grievance, but I would advise we drop the issue and work on a solution moving forward, rather than continually debate real and perceived issues.

    * I realize I could go into extreme detail, but I dont think this is needed or wise.
    This. This was very well written and thoroughly explains the entire situation.

    Our new players forget, if some of the new ones even knew at all, that GED has been fronting the cost of our entire operation. Server hardware, website hosting, upgrading, and our primary troubleshooter when things go way bad.

    All they see is we had a failing server that suffered from numerous problems and then both the website and servers crashing and being entirely unreliable. Then they see GED shutdown our TWC community forum.

    Quote Originally Posted by Squid View Post
    When it comes to how people react there's a large distance between calm and the the crap being thrown around here. So no I don't necessarily expect people to react as if nothing happened, but I'd also expect better than what I've seen.
    While I won't excuse nor would I accept certain people's overreactions, it is certainly understandable. If I hadn't been part of this server since the very beginning, I'd probably be getting angry too. At the moment though, its mostly just kinda sad to be treated like this after all these years and have our relationship end like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Poach View Post
    The community comes from TWC, most of us being TWC regulars and coming into the community via TWC. Others joined on MCC, a sister site to TWC. The community, having lost MCC to technical problems, came back here, their original home.
    There was no malice when we returned here. We actually thought we were being resilient (given that MCC crashed and was unresponsive for a good deal of time and the map hosted on the TWC server was utterly dysfunctional) and were returning "home". This is where we came from and where we all thought we belonged. It wasn't "Oh GED's server sucks lets start our own" but instead it was "Our server isn't working so lets come together and host a community one".

    It was extremely unfortunate that pretty much everyone important in MCC's operation had real life issues to deal with are pretty much the same time, but it happens. Pretty much all MCC's admins were gone. All the plugin staff were gone. GED was gone. To us there was no way that MCC was going to come back so we decided to move on.

    Now really what I want to get from this is... What do you think we should have done? Obviously if you're completely kicking us out of TWC you think we're in the wrong. But where did we go wrong? Trying to keep our community alive? This wasn't us betraying GED by abandoning MCC and his server, it was us keeping the community alive instead of saying screw it and just abandoning everything.

    What would you have us do given those circumstances?
    Last edited by Connor93; January 14, 2015 at 08:34 AM.

  12. #112

    Default Re: Forum Closed

    I've been on this server for a long time now and I've never been warned or banned. Now I get thrown in the same corner as people who have broken the rules and have been banned for it.
    Excuse me if I feel insulted for that, but that's in no way fair.
    ''Holy hell that Scythe is overpowerd! Death should be nerfed!''

  13. #113
    Remlap's Avatar Lag Slayer
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    5,572

    Default Re: Forum Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Connor93 View Post
    There was no malice when we returned here. We actually thought we were being resilient (given that MCC crashed and was unresponsive for a good deal of time and the map hosted on the TWC server was utterly dysfunctional) and were returning "home". This is where we came from and where we all thought we belonged. It wasn't "Oh GED's server sucks lets start our own" but instead it was "Our server isn't working so lets come together and host a community one".

    It was extremely unfortunate that pretty much everyone important in MCC's operation had real life issues to deal with are pretty much the same time, but it happens. Pretty much all MCC's admins were gone. All the plugin staff were gone. GED was gone. To us there was no way that MCC was going to come back so we decided to move on.

    Now really what I want to get from this is... What do you think we should have done? Obviously if you're completely kicking us out of TWC you think we're in the wrong. But where did we go wrong? Trying to keep our community alive? This wasn't us betraying GED by abandoning MCC and his server, it was us keeping the community alive instead of saying screw it and just abandoning everything.

    What would you have us do given those circumstances?
    Well there are several people who knew the correct way to handle that situation. One of them was in charge of moving the community back over here, despite GED having stated multiple times he didn't wish it. If HEX is anything like how MCC was, there is a contact thread with direct ways to contact people. This includes a direct email to GED and as Eol stated earlier a phone number.

    In the event of an emergency for the community GED can be gotten a hold of. I can attest to this personally when I made the /etc/ folder read/writable for everyone and he basically had to reinstall ubuntu for the server (Still slap myself over that). Within an hour of me emailing the site was down GED responded despite having been fighting wild fires all Fall.

    There is also the fact that Squid could also have been contacted about it as well, unless GED changed something he should be able to connect to Valhalla from one of the TWC servers. But Squid would also be able to contact GED directly and be able to resolve the issue.

    As such the community is now being reprehended for the community being moved back here despite GED's wishes on the matter. Without being contacted about that first, or an attempt to contact him over it.

    Now put yourselves in GED's shoes, you take a break for a month and comeback and no one is bothering to use the brand new server you purchased for them or the website that took a lot of time and work to maintain. Instead all of those people are now doing exactly what you told them not to. If you don't know how much a server costs, let me assure you they aren't cheap (the original one MCC ran on was 5k alone iirc not including the additional hardware for it). On top of which people who were banned from that site for breaking the rules or even blatantly hacking were let back onto the community server left and right.

    In such a situation GED's reaction is the correct one, it's not majority of the communities fault for the situation that arose. However that doesn't change the fact that it happened, and that there are more than one example in just this thread that can justify what GED is saying. Sure you can say cherry picking etc. to Squid, but I can call out that as BS. Or did you forget all of the posts over at MCC in the exact same vein?
    Last edited by Remlap; January 14, 2015 at 11:25 AM.

  14. #114

    Default Re: Forum Closed

    Remlap's made the clearest of points. And yeah it is understandable why GED got so upset over this matter.

    But speaking for us who brought the community back here. We (Ditronian, myself, Connor or Keelo) didn't have GED's personal email/number to try and get in touch. Poach may of had that being in Hex but as I said before, we didn't plan on coming back here, we initially wanted to set this up at MCC to give the MCC staff a break (just a temporary community server until something was done about Towny or when GED gets back) and keep the community happy (everyone wanted Factions over Towny as main plugin), after hearing from MCC Staff that nothing was being worked on at the moment because they were understaffed and a lot of work was to be done, that gave us a greater incentive to go ahead with the community server.

    Then MCC went down. Hawk couldn't do anything about it because he didn't have any ROOT level access.

    Then Poach approached Ditronian or vice versa (I'm not sure what was discussed) but we were invited back to TWC, personally I thought GED would be okay with this due to the circumstances of MCC being down.

    So yeah, the real fault then lies with the miscommunication between Poach + Hawk with GED, as nobody got in touch with him apparently, although I do recall Hawk mentioning he spoke to him briefly a couple of times whilst MCC was down. Again, I do not know what exactly was discussed. So instead of being angry at the community, GED should of been angry with his former staff.
    Last edited by Sanny; January 14, 2015 at 11:34 AM.

  15. #115
    Magister Militum Flavius Aetius's Avatar Aetī Avēas!
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Rock Hill, SC
    Posts
    16,312
    Tournaments Joined
    1
    Tournaments Won
    0

    Default Re: Forum Closed

    I think it's time I posted my complete thoughts on the matter:

    I first saw the opening post by GED after "Lord Poah of the Spire" alerted me to it when I asked if the forum was glitching or something. My initial reaction was surprise at GED's post, and a little discontentment, but I decided this will not be resolved by retorts and argumentation. Therefore, I waited it out until now, so that both sides had adequate time to present their views. As such, I will now present mine:

    The community comes from TWC, most of us being TWC regulars and coming into the community via TWC. Others joined on MCC, a sister site to TWC. The community, having lost MCC to technical problems, came back here, their original home.
    This, is mostly how I view it.

    When the split to MCC was announced it was pitched to become the TWC of minecraft.
    I honestly never liked the move to MCC in the first place, because I knew that it could never succeed as TWC did, because frankly it wasn't created early enough. TWC came to be when Total War was a small community and not widely known, at least compared to how it is today.

    However, MinecraftCenter was already faced with the challenge of competing with sites such as Minecraftforum and Planet Minecraft in popularity, which frankly it could never supersede because of the existing notoriety of those forums.

    Thus, my point becomes again: are you expecting people to react calmly to being told such a thing? Would you shrug and walk away with a smile on your face if you went back to your old place looking for a roof over your head only for the landlord to show up a while later and not only kick you out, but take the keys off the guy that let you in? That's a pretty serious slight against you personally, is it not? It's not about the guy having the keys taken off him, it's about how much the landlord hates you that he'd do that in response.
    Frankly, I would expect my landlord to if my rent was up. I think the fallacy in this argument is that the Minecraft server's community weren't supposed to be on TWC, in the minds of most of the staff and of course GED. Honestly, it was a bit botched in that GED "left the apartment vacant." That is, he left the minecraft forum here, predominately unused, rather than redirect everything to MCC. There has been more modification development in the minecraft forums here on TWC, than there has on MCC, which I think partly reinforces the premise I stated above that MCC was never poised to be another TWC.

    There has been a negative attitude permeating through the community since before we moved to MCC. At the time this was a small fraction and not really a major issue. However, imo, without the broad coverage of TWC this attitude grew and festered throughout a great deal of the community. Personal issues and dislike grew into major problems for the server, staff, and community; and at some points influential players, current and past staff, and respected members were involved, which only made matters worse. Until these issues are resolved or forgotten it will be difficult to gain traction moving forward.
    This cannot be denied. After a few weeks of map three, I personally expected it to fail, along with every map after that. I wanted the Towny map (map 5 I believe) to fail. Not to mention there were a number of people who had created or exasperated animosity between some players and the server operators, administrators, or moderators. Certainly the incident with the Faction forums highlights this case.

    The move here saw a much happier community, because in my opinion, in part because those in the community who were showing leadership replaced the moderators and admins, who had strained relations with the commiunity over the past three maps of the server, and had also failed, in my opinion, to step up in the effective operation of the server.

    Well there are several people who knew the correct way to handle that situation. One of them was in charge of moving the community back over here, despite GED having stated multiple times he didn't wish it. If HEX is anything like how MCC was, there is a contact thread with direct ways to contact people. This includes a direct email to GED and as Eol stated earlier a phone number.

    In the event of an emergency for the community GED can be gotten a hold of. I can attest to this personally when I made the /etc/ folder read/writable for everyone and he basically had to reinstall ubuntu for the server (Still slap myself over that). Within an hour of me emailing the site was down GED responded despite having been fighting wild fires all Fall.

    There is also the fact that Squid could also have been contacted about it as well, unless GED changed something he should be able to connect to Valhalla from one of the TWC servers. But Squid would also be able to contact GED directly and be able to resolve the issue.
    And I think this is the ultimate trump card in the logic of those saying GED could not be reached.

    Finally, as a summation of my points, I see the situation as follows: GED did not overreact in that he essentially kicked us out, but acted on all the available information he had. However, it seems he made a bad decision, as now there is no chance that, if he ever did want Minecraftcenter to succeed, it ever will as there is no community for which the forum can be used. Had he told the community to move back to MinecraftCenter, the situation would likely have been rectified to GED's best interests.
    Last edited by Magister Militum Flavius Aetius; January 14, 2015 at 12:15 PM.

  16. #116
    Poach's Avatar Civitate
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    26,760

    Default Re: Forum Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by Remlap View Post
    Well there are several people who knew the correct way to handle that situation. One of them was in charge of moving the community back over here, despite GED having stated multiple times he didn't wish it. If HEX is anything like how MCC was, there is a contact thread with direct ways to contact people. This includes a direct email to GED and as Eol stated earlier a phone number.
    I've explained to GED in response to his PM that if he told me the MC community was banned from ever returning to TWC I've long since forgotten that instruction. To me, the correct way to handle GED's forum and GED's MC server being offline was to let Ditro's MC server use GED's other forum to organise until GED's technical problems were resolved and Hawk could talk to GED about the future like he always said he would long before I ever agreed to re-open the now-closed forum here.

    To present what was an arrangement of convenience until serious technical problems could be overcome as some conspiracy to destroy MCC is to ascribe to a radical conspiracy theory. All this could've been cleared up in two PMs: one to me asking why Minecraft is here, and one from me saying "both MCC the site and MCC the server were down and, pending Hawk chatting to you about his future plans with Ditro, they're here."

    The implication that I knew full well that I was engaging in some nefarious scheme is well off the mark. I was giving Ditro some space to organise until Hawk and Ditro could speak to GED as they fully intended to do.

  17. #117

    Default Re: Forum Closed

    What I don't understand is how communication breakdown got to the point that GED did not find out about MCC's technical issues until he saw the community move back here. It would seem ludicrous to me that none of the former admins of MCC ever tried contacting him, even via the TWC channels as was mentioned before. Furthermore, no effort was made to illustrate GED's disappearance, besides a general air from our administration of "We have absolutely no clue where he is or what the future holds". Had there been even a brief remark about a personal leave of absence due to emergency reasons, I'm fairly sure that people would have dealt with the entire situation with much more patience. But no one said anything, and we felt abandoned, naturally.

    It was already mentioned before but perhaps it requires reminding: apart from GED, none of the MCC staff had any root level access to the server in order to even attempt to fix the problems that were being experienced. As I recall, those rights were revoked when Remlap departed, and GED solely had that definitive access, leaving us dependent on his presence and ability were there to be any problems. If I could put this further into perspective, the now-defunct Collab server, as nicely run as it was, had no dedicated mod or admin, meaning that there was absolutely no way to solve any in-game or server problems as they arose. And they did sometimes, leading to inaction, which then lead to broken mechanics and disinterest.

    The point I'm trying to hit here is that without GED, MCC did not have the power to do anything. There was no possibility of enacting a "plan B" that could be effectively managed by MCC at any point, and I believe that we were right in trying to preserve the community, for what it's worth, in setting up a community server, even if it was only temporary until MCC was fixed, so that GED would not come back to a barren wasteland that we now unfortunately call MCC.

  18. #118
    GrnEyedDvl's Avatar Liberalism is a Socially Transmitted Disease
    Artifex Technical Staff

    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Denver CO
    Posts
    23,805
    Blog Entries
    9

    Default Re: Forum Closed

    Quote Originally Posted by King of Belka View Post
    This behavior is all because you took away our forum and you know it, I never thought I would be here right now this frustrated with TWC and you personally. You had a combative attitude with us on MCC throughout and insulted other players directly because the Dwarves didn't build your son or whoever a diamond statue depecting GED destroyer of servers with lightning bolts flying out of his ass instead of killing him like every faction on minecraft would do.
    I think its funny that you bring this up. This has nothing to do with that, with how new players are treated. The entire reason I had my son join the site was to prove how easily you guys were driving away new players. There are about 20 players who got absolutely raped within hours of joining the site to the point that they just left. Many of them sent me PMs about it.

    So I had him join just to see what happened. He never had any real intention of staying on the site anyways as he and his friends play on a small server here at my house. I used his joining of the site to illustrate what was happening and try to convince the community it was damaging itself. You guys are so happy about 30 players online at once that you cannot see the fact that number should easily be 200. So I used my sons experience to start that conversation and try to talk people into handling new players differently.

    You will notice that there were NOT new rules about it. I didn't try to force that on anyone. The rules I made where about faction behavior inside the forums and a process for granting private faction forums. People didn't like the rules for behavior inside faction forums, or how they talk in game. And I got tired of the abusive insulting language being used all over the forums.


    Quote Originally Posted by IZob View Post
    GED think of the forum activity you are going to lose by closing the sub forum.
    Do you really want to talk about traffic? If so then you are on the losing side of the argument. TWC generates in a single day more traffic than MCC did in a year. Losing MC subforum traffic is really losing nothing in terms of page views. And that's before I start counting the people that played on the server and never posted a single post. I talked a bit about that on the forums too, and how to get those people to post. Possibly you missed that conversation because it wasn't in the PvP forums.




    Quote Originally Posted by djehoety View Post
    Overall this is just a shamefull dispray by you GED. And its silly not a single other admin in TWC steps in to do something about the situation you created. Let me get started with your arguments: you say that the Minecraft subforums were a problem for you and that's why you are shutting them down, sure. I would like to believe you, isn't it that you don't show any real facts. If the forums were a problem, then show us. Show us in the amount of moderator interactions, in the warnings and in the amount of breaking of the TOS. I am pretty sure, definitely in the last forums, that there wasn't much breaking of the TOS at all.
    You would be wrong there. I could fire the site back up and show you dozens of posts worthy of infraction where instead I tried to talk with people instead of handing out infractions.

    Again, all of that is why I originally told Poach I would shut the site down before I moved it back to TWC.




    GED, for real? Your now even monitoring the behavior on steam? This is hilarious.
    No, I was monitoring traffic on MCC which happened to include screenshots from Steam conversations. If you talk about it on Steam then post it on TWC or MCC then absolutely I am going to take a look at it.



    I don't think you see the point. First of all, you've have been hiding this for us, letting us think there was progress on MCC while there wasn't. Secondly, this has nothing to do with a new server or discussions in the Minecraft forums. Are you basically saying everything that is multiplayer Minecraft related will be banned in the future cause ''people who play minecraft don't follow the TOS''?.
    No, that's not what I am saying at all. But I guess you can read into it whatever you want.


    What I also find funny is that if you knew this all along already, what made you still buy the new server that costed so many dollars? I mean; isn't this just proving your arguments aren't really valid but you just don't want to see the success of others on something you've failed completely in?
    I bought the server because its was desperately needed since the original server developed motherboard problems. I think everyone knows that. I had to make a decision at that time whether or not to keep MCC going or let it die an ungraceful death. I decided to give it a chance to grow into a real community.

    Now undoubtedly there were problems. Lots of them. Launching the server in the state the plugins were in was a mistake. But I wanted to give the current staff there a chance to work through it. In hindsight I would have done things differently (and still might) but at no time was the option of bringing this back to TWC an option.


    Again, I hope you see how ridiculous your past four posts have been. How ridiculous your behavior has been since you've returned, and above all I hope you recall this act as its bad for TWC overall. Especially for its so-called reputation.
    Allowing the stuff that went on at MCC to crossover to TWC is what would be bad for its reputation.


    Quote Originally Posted by Connor93 View Post
    Consul Napoleon Bonaparte aka Celoxia has constantly proven to be toxic for our MC community (earning multiple bans). Don't characterize us with his example.
    If the MC community is going to allow people like this on the server, then I am not going to allow that community on TWC.



    It is only when people like Celoxia make posts like that, that I start to at least partially understand why GED did what he did. Seems like he is trying to upload a certain standard on TWC that individuals part of the MC server muddy. Though that could probably be said of every game with TWC hosted forums.
    Absolutely not. If you can point to a single post where an ex-staff member of an officially hosted game (clan servers, whatever) outright insulted a current staff member and then told me personally via TS that he was glad that staff member was offended I would be surprised. Or go find me a screen shot on TWC of a Steam conversation where members of a specific faction are talking about how to drive an admin away.

    Stuff like this is why I am not allowing the community to have subforums here. If a clan for one of the games hosted on TWC did stuff like that and more, then I would take their forum/clan status away as well. Especially if the leader of said clan was not only condoning it but encouraging it. And if it was multiple clans and the leaders of those clans resisted my attempts to get them to self police their members, then support for that game on TWC would go away as well.




    Quote Originally Posted by Buddydog View Post
    What I don't understand is why this thread is still open. I was expecting reprisals for us even commenting in this thread.
    Then you obviously do not know me at all.



    Quote Originally Posted by Poach View Post
    I stand by my statement. There is absolutely no mechanism by which the rest of Hex, even unanimously, can overrule your decisions.
    Oh really?

    Then how do you explain the name change thread that still exists? I have been fervently opposed to that since its inception. There are numerous other things that I am absolutely opposed to that are allowed on TWC specifically because other Hex members have voted on it in the past.


    As the sole and complete owner of the site, that point is unassailable. I quite clearly stated they have input, as Connor reminded you, so to what extend am I 'misrepresenting' that process? Hiring/Firing decision comes up, Hex have input, you make the Yes/No decision. What part of that process is misrepresented?
    What is misrepresented is what actually happens. While yes I technically can do anything I want, I generally do NOT act unilaterally and you know it full well. In the case of hiring especially. Radzeer was hired as Hex without any input from me at all. I was out fighting fires last summer and when I came back he had been promoted. And I have no problem with that at all. He has been a fine addition.

    How many gaming staff did I hire and fire? 0
    How many Content Staff have I hired and fired? 0 - The only two I can actually name that got fired I would have fired without talking to anyone else but Omni beat me to it.

    Squid and Pann have both hired and fired more people than I have, and come to think of it so have Beli and Omni and Stealth. The only real hiring and firing I generally do is related to Tech Staff.




    Quote Originally Posted by Poach View Post
    I would agree that taking evidence from a thread such as this is a biased approach. A community that's stayed together for four years, across more than a dozen map restarts, and who have integrated to a point that they interact well beyond Minecraft (my own examples: I play EU4, WoW, and EVE with people I met on MC right now, I have played a half dozen other games with people met here, and I've met three of them in real life) have summarily been told they're a foul group of people unworthy of a home on TWC, and whose mere existence, once discovered, provoked such anger that the one responsible now holds the honour (as I know it) of being the only openly fired Admin on TWC.
    You are hardly the only one, though what Squid said about you being the one to make it public is true.

    But you are also the only one who took an action directly contradicting what I had already decided. How else should I react to that?

    I have always said that we need to act in a way that is in the best interest of the site. And in my opinion bringing MCC back to TWC was definitely NOT in the best interest of the site. You yourself know how toxic that environment was and still is, which is why you started a thread about it inside Hex. After hours and hours of conversation with everyone on TS and hours and hours of posts on both sites I knew that bringing this community back to TWC would be a bad idea. You know damned well that I specifically told you I was minutes away from just pulling the plug one night, we had a very long conversation about it. I was willing to let it die rather than bring it back here.





    Quote Originally Posted by Connor93 View Post
    This. This was very well written and thoroughly explains the entire situation.

    Our new players forget, if some of the new ones even knew at all, that GED has been fronting the cost of our entire operation. Server hardware, website hosting, upgrading, and our primary troubleshooter when things go way bad.

    All they see is we had a failing server that suffered from numerous problems and then both the website and servers crashing and being entirely unreliable. Then they see GED shutdown our TWC community forum.



    While I won't excuse nor would I accept certain people's overreactions, it is certainly understandable. If I hadn't been part of this server since the very beginning, I'd probably be getting angry too. At the moment though, its mostly just kinda sad to be treated like this after all these years and have our relationship end like this.
    Who said anything has ended?

    Just because I haven't put MCC back up doesn't mean I will not put it back up at all. The only thing I have done is say there will not be a Community server using the TWC name considering how some of those players behave.



    There was no malice when we returned here. We actually thought we were being resilient (given that MCC crashed and was unresponsive for a good deal of time and the map hosted on the TWC server was utterly dysfunctional) and were returning "home". This is where we came from and where we all thought we belonged. It wasn't "Oh GED's server sucks lets start our own" but instead it was "Our server isn't working so lets come together and host a community one".

    It was extremely unfortunate that pretty much everyone important in MCC's operation had real life issues to deal with are pretty much the same time, but it happens. Pretty much all MCC's admins were gone. All the plugin staff were gone. GED was gone. To us there was no way that MCC was going to come back so we decided to move on.
    I get that.


    Now really what I want to get from this is... What do you think we should have done? Obviously if you're completely kicking us out of TWC you think we're in the wrong. But where did we go wrong? Trying to keep our community alive? This wasn't us betraying GED by abandoning MCC and his server, it was us keeping the community alive instead of saying screw it and just abandoning everything.


    What would you have us do given those circumstances?
    I don't know what I would have done in your shoes. But you also didn't know that I had already decided this was not coming back to TWC.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ynen View Post
    I've been on this server for a long time now and I've never been warned or banned. Now I get thrown in the same corner as people who have broken the rules and have been banned for it.
    Excuse me if I feel insulted for that, but that's in no way fair.
    This is the most legitimate complaint I have seen posted here. And I completely get where Ynen is coming from. Guys like this caught in the crossfire I do feel some sympathy for.

    The amazing thing to me is that not once have I been asked what my intentions are for the MCC site and servers. I haven't decided yet, but I haven't even been asked. Ironic.

  19. #119
    Poach's Avatar Civitate
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    26,760

    Default Re: Forum Closed

    I'm not sure how many times, both in public and in private, I can explain that I don't remember being told they were banned from returning to TWC. I totally accept I dropped the ball on forgetting, but stating it as if I intentionally ignored the instructions (to what end anyway?) is wrong. By publicly fired I meant not being given the offer, as others who were told they were no longer suitable before me were given, to resign. I found out I wasn't a Hex when someone asked me over Steam why I wasn't a Hex.

  20. #120

    Default Re: Forum Closed

    Thanks for your reply GED, your post did clear up some unanswered questions/thoughts I had in my mind. It was okay to let a few days past to let the fire die down, instead of us all insulting each other like children in a playground. I apologise for any offence I personally gave you, and I'm sure the community is also sorry for their remarks.

    People like Celoxia, were almost never let back in, he had an appeal which we reviewed, and formed a decision off of. Due to him only cheating once, we reluctantly decided to give him a second chance because almost everyone deserves a second chance, although under vigorous monitoring. Only other infractions he had were of bad behaviour/swearing etc. Yet he was the only cheater we let back. And he has not broke a single rule since, apart from his language in this thread.
    Other people we let back were people who had previously had bad behaviour. And this is because we are running a mature server now. Even so this was a mistake as TWC allows users over 13 years of age to join, when we had 18 years of age content/language being posted on the server. Even so, our community has had 0 infractions and bans since the start of the new map until this thread popped up.

    The amazing thing to me is that not once have I been asked what my intentions are for the MCC site and servers. I haven't decided yet, but I haven't even been asked. Ironic
    Well when you take down the MCC servers and everything, and with the MCC Staff giving up. With zero motivation or enough people to staff the community with the large task at hand. It really says a lot by itself.
    Last edited by Sanny; January 14, 2015 at 03:21 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •