Why Both AoR and Auxillary Units for Rome?

[djvandyke]

Can anybody explain the logic of having both the generic area of recruitment units, and auxiliary units available for Rome?
This leads to a vast array of almost identical duplicate units, main difference being the Auxiliary versions offering poor value for money in comparison to AoR.

Would it not make more sense to disable AoR troops for Rome?

[Ivan_Moscavich]

Auxiliary's are mostly Marian and Post Marian specialty troops for Rome. AoR is for everyone, and available without reforms in most cases.

I personally would not enjoy having to wait all the way until Marian reforms to be able to recruit some decent ranged units and cavalry.

[HarkonRules]

Auxiliary Barracks are worth building everywhere and I like them a lot, they allows your armies to be rather richer in variation. I always have a manipular barracks and auxiliary barracks in Italy, and then tend to build auxiliary barracks away from Rome, it gives you access to many Socii units, and awesome gaul cavalry. It's a minsconception that Auxiliary Barracks is mostly for Marian era, it works well with every reform. You get A LOT more offer from local units, not just 2 crappy levy level units.

[Mark of Calth]

If you disable AoR troops for Rome, you would NEED an auxiliary barracks in a province to train local troops there, which kind of goes against the whole concept of Rome being better at utilising local troops than everyone else. It would probably annoy people who like to min-max provinces for economic benefits, as they'd be in serious trouble if invaded, or use up a building slot to be able to train half-decent troops.

[meerkatology]

AoR units have a cap. not a big deal early on, but when you hit imperial era, you will cap out on them quickly. if you want more of similar types of units you'd have to make the aux.

[Woden329]

I've always seen AoR and Auxiliaries as two different things; Auxiliaries (for Rome) I think of as local men from a Latinised province trained in a Roman fashion to support the legion in battle. They can't be recruited without a barracks which implies a degree of training and arming.

AoR are local men willing to fight for you but who have received no Roman style training and use their personal equipment.

[UsulDaNeriak]

This leads to a vast array of almost identical duplicate units, main difference being the Auxiliary versions offering poor value for money in comparison to AoR.

This statement is not correct. Compare the AoR german auxilia, which are just light levy infantery and the batavian cohorts, which are heavy roman elite infantry. The only difference to romans is: they are better than legionairs, but they prefer beer and beef, not wine and pork.

Would it not make more sense to disable AoR troops for Rome?

No, because there is a clear increase in the power of auxilia as it was IRL, from AoR (levies) to the highly trained later auxilia soldiers. Simply compare the german auxilia, who fought with Germanicus and the german auxilia, who fought with Agricola.

[Matmannen]

The auxilary system and AOR are vastly diffrent (check the scriptorium). Auxilary gives access much more easily compared to AOR, I will show you how using Creten archers as an example.

To be able to recruit Creten archers with AOR the player must do the following two things:
1. Control crete
2. Build level 3 village center in Knossos.

To be able to recruit creten archers using the auxiliary system the player must:
1. Control any region within Hellas, Macedon or control Syracuse.
2. Build a basic Auxiliary barracks (level 2 barracks).

Rome has an advantage within the AoR scene, also I think the Romanized versions of the AoR troops do not have the morale penalty that AoR units suffer...

EDIT: Also, correct me if I am wrong, auxiliary troops are only accesible if latin culture is dominant...

[Ivan_Moscavich]

The auxilary system and AOR are vastly diffrent (check the scriptorium). Auxilary gives access much more easily compared to AOR, I will show you how using Creten archers as an example.

To be able to recruit Creten archers with AOR the player must do the following two things:
1. Control crete
2. Build level 3 village center in Knossos.

To be able to recruit creten archers using the auxiliary system the player must:
1. Control any region within Hellas, Macedon or control Syracuse.
2. Build a basic Auxiliary barracks (level 2 barracks).

Rome has an advantage within the AoR scene, also I think the Romanized versions of the AoR troops do not have the morale penalty that AoR units suffer...

EDIT: Also, correct me if I am wrong, auxiliary troops are only accesible if latin culture is dominant...

It's kind of funny, because in this way, Rome has access to Cretan archers FASTER than Knossos can even possibly acquire them.

And yeah, Roman auxiliary units that are Romanized versions of AoR troops have the superior morale Roman units tend to have.

As far as I know, only the Marian and imperial Roman auxiliary troops require dominant Latin culture. The handful of Aux troops you get during Camillian and Polybian do not require dominant Latin culture.
I can start recruiting Romanized Cretan archers from Appolonia when the province is still 89% Greek.


As an aside, Mercenary Cretan archers have high armor than both Romanized, and AoR Cretan archers. 25 armor compared to 5 in the latter cases. Seems a bit unusual, but for the increased up keep cost it's nice that they're a bit more durable.


Edit: Ninja'd by Diego on the latin question.

[Don_Diego]

No Latin culture is not required for auxiliaries (they have their own local cultures so no need to romanize them, just some training). It allows rome to recruit better auxiliaries straight away in border provinces.

The early Roman auxilia are similar to the AOR units but better moral (except latin socii which are unique. However past Marian reforms they become very different and are almost as well equipped as legionaries, and sometimes they are even better fighters than the legionaries themselves...

[Pavlik the Rus]

Frankly i agree that AoR units must be removed from Rome's roster, cause a lot of auxilia units. But i guess that a lot of people will disagree with me.
SO, simple solution - i rquest officially approved sub-mod for DeI without AoR units.

[Matmannen]

Frankly i agree that AoR units must be removed from Rome's roster, cause a lot of auxilia units. But i guess that a lot of people will disagree with me.
SO, simple solution - i rquest officially approved sub-mod for DeI without AoR units.

I ink you could do it on your own, just open building template for town and city centers and start removing the unit recruiting capabilites, though the AoR troops are handy as you have a restriction on available Auxiliary and romanized troops (I can for example only recruit six romanized celto-hellenic thorax swords (available in Pannonia)), so the AoR will be usefull even, especially when you can't recruit more auxilia...

[Don_Diego]

Yeah, if you have better options, just don't recruit AOR as rome. sometimes you might not have the auxiliary barracks and need a quick army, and not all AOR units have Auxiliary versions... Better to leave the option there rather than lock it out IMO. What if you still want to use Balearic slingers in late roman times? (Which is historic), by then you can only recruit them as mercs or AOR as the early aux are upgraded to the proffesional reformed versions....

[Ivan_Moscavich]

Yeah, if you have better options, just don't recruit AOR as rome. sometimes you might not have the auxiliary barracks and need a quick army, and not all AOR units have Auxiliary versions... Better to leave the option there rather than lock it out IMO. What if you still want to use Balearic slingers in late roman times? (Which is historic), by then you can only recruit them as mercs or AOR as the early aux are upgraded to the proffesional reformed versions....

This. I keep Rhodesian slingers and Cretan archers in my Legions even during imperial times.

I love the variety that both AoR and Auxiliary troops give Rome.

I really don't see why people want them removed, there is literally not a single draw back to having them in the game. None what so ever.
All removing them does is limit your recruitment options, and by extension, limits your strategic and tactical play.

If you don't like them, here's an idea. Don't recruit them.