Siege question

**Zom** · January 10, 2015, 05:29 PM

I never needed to engage in prolonged sieges in vanilla, but find it to be a useful tactic in DeI. I ran into a situation that I have not encountered before.

On my second turn of a siege, the enemy sallied forth... except it didn't. The AI sat behind its walls, the time ran out, and I suffered a crushing defeat, breaking the siege.

Is this a DeI problem? Or just one more CA mistake? Is there a remedy?

**krunsh** · January 10, 2015, 05:39 PM

Originally Posted by Zom

I never needed to engage in prolonged sieges in vanilla, but find it to be a useful tactic in DeI. I ran into a situation that I have not encountered before.

On my second turn of a siege, the enemy sallied forth... except it didn't. The AI sat behind its walls, the time ran out, and I suffered a crushing defeat, breaking the siege.

Is this a DeI problem? Or just one more CA mistake? Is there a remedy?

Seems like a bug. I'm fairly sure that when they AI sally forth, the battle is played on a normal map (Not a siege or village map.).

I also have a siege question of my own. Using DeI, how do you guys handle walls while defending? I have been trying to use hoplites on them, but they are doing terrible... I end up simply deploying either outside the walls (With archers on top), Or inside the walls (In which case I don't even put archers on the wall... since it's always a gamble whether or not they will get off the wall swiftly, or get stuck there for 5 minutes while the enemies are climbing.).

**Mirozero** · January 10, 2015, 07:46 PM

I put atleast 1 ranged Unit on a gate if think the enemy will go for it. I place spear units infront of wall entrance and gates, behind that whatever melee unit can throw pillums. Most of my ranged stay inside the city in shooting range to the walls, they can get alot of kills if u micromanage the attacks. Alot of times i can make the first 2-3 enemy units route when they set their foots on the wall. After that theyll have to fight my spear units off when getting out of the entrance (1by1). Once they break tru them it becomes situational. Depending where they got most units. Rest of my melee and reserve ranged have to do the rest. I always keep my general and elite units out of missile range until i have to use them to win.

**Hannib4l** · January 10, 2015, 08:13 PM

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The AI build only ladders (15) at sieges. is this a bug ?

**Daraan** · January 10, 2015, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by krunsh

I also have a siege question of my own. Using DeI, how do you guys handle walls while defending? I have been trying to use hoplites on them, but they are doing terrible... I end up simply deploying either outside the walls (With archers on top), Or inside the walls (In which case I don't even put archers on the wall... since it's always a gamble whether or not they will get off the wall swiftly, or get stuck there for 5 minutes while the enemies are climbing.).

Even when outnumbered / have better units against me this tactic helped me a lot and is now my standard.

I try to stop them before they can reach the walls. I move ~1 unit per ladder out of the city or at least 1 per 2 ladders.
I put archers on the walls but not directly in front of the ladders but rather to the side so units are not protected by the ladders. Always fire diagonally expect when you want to burn the ladders. As Suebi I don't have access to firearrows that much so I can't tell if it's better to attack the ladders or the units.

Also shields are worn at the left hand so my i concentrate the main archer defense at my left side (enemy's right sword side). Depending on how many archers you have you can reduce the moral of 1-2 units very much and then my outside units are hitting in from the flank or from behind -> bam. Depending on the moral of the enemy I swap the archers to the next units or let them keep firing.

So if now a ladder hits the wall I still try to hit them with outside units from the rear and on the walls since my archers shouldn't be in the way are spear units with good defense.

Now about the gates. When the enemy tries to get the gates I sometimes as well move out with a unit to stop them from damaging the gate further. Very often this unit is lost due to reinforces but it's the time that is worth it. Remember my guys fighting the ladders? As soon as the ladders or most of them are out of the way you can fully concentrate on the gate and even attack here from the flank or back.

So worst case the gate gets broken. Now I quickly move some units a bit outward because as soon as there are enemy units inside you loose the gate and the towers won't fire anymore.
And now the slugfest begins.
I rotate the defending unit at the gates - mostly spearman btw. - so they can regain their stamina. The enemy units don't do this.
When I know I can hold the gate for some time I pause my archers or just let a part of them fire. Then after some time when the enemy should be tired a bit I start firing again which now has a bigger effect in reducing the moral. If my gate defense power is not that high I keep firing but try save some ammunition with 1-2 units to keep up the fire.

And now you either loose or the enemy units will flee in a big group.

Ah just two more things keep the general near the gate so that the fighting units are in his area of influence. Also the moral of the enemy(and your own) gets torn apart when ~80%-90% of the army is gone (dead or fled). When the enemy has lots of ranged units and you have fast light infantry it's worth trying to kill them with outside units. Well your

ed when the enemy has ranged cavalry or your units are not fast enough and its 1v2 ranged. It's a great difference if you have to fight 200 archers and 200 melee at the end or 400 melee were in the first case the melee will fight to the end and the archers flee or in the second the a good amount of the melee will flee.

I don't know about you but for me it's do or die at the gates no second defense line like the AI.

**stevehoos** · January 10, 2015, 08:38 PM

Anyone seen the AI build rams yet, I have not seen it yet? I had a battle where they built 10 galleys. If CA would bother to fix them it would be helpful. I have yet to see any siege towers either.

**Zom** · January 11, 2015, 12:19 AM

Thanks Krunsh... for hijacking the thread.

**krunsh** · January 11, 2015, 08:35 AM

Originally Posted by Zom

Thanks Krunsh... for hijacking the thread.

It's mine now!!!

I can confirm that I have never seen Siege Towers or Rams. I feel like this may be related to the Quick Battle balance being a little broken (Lower tier troops having too much value and causing the AI to always attack right away.).

And Daraan, I have been using a similar tactic. Attacking the troops pushing ladders while archers fire for support. Thing is, this is borderline exploit (The AI really can't handle it.), and I was hoping for something a little more immersive.

As it stands, barbarian forts function as they should, but stone walls are just broken terribly.

**FlashHeart07** · January 11, 2015, 12:32 PM

Hmm. Ive had several sieges where the enemy has used rams. They should be modded to wait for at least one or two turns before attacking and also recruitting rams.