Diplomatic options we need

[Riekopo]

So far from all the previews I've seen it looks like there are only two small additions to diplomacy in Attila. One being arrange marriage and the other being gifting a region to a horde. This is extremely disappointing to say the least. The Total War map will continue to feel lifeless to me so long as diplomatic options are so barebones. If CA just added the options that were in previous games things would feel much more alive. Let's list the diplomatic options we think are needed:

* Offer region.
* Ask for region.
* Offer technology.
* Ask for technology.
* Offer loan.
* Ask for loan.
* Offer tribute.
* Ask for tribute.
* Offer map.
* Ask for map.
* Offer resource.
* Ask for resource.
* Make peace with...
* Option for time limits on treaties
* Trade embargoes
* Ransom character
* Bribe character

[RedGuard]

I like all of those but Id take away the asking for loan and offering loan as the ai will keep asking you for money and the latter could be abused by the player. We should definitely bring back the trade technology and regions though.

[Humble Warrior]

I like all of those but Id take away the asking for loan and offering loan as the ai will keep asking you for money and the latter could be abused by the player. We should definitely bring back the trade technology and regions though.

Wrong way to look at it- that`s CA`s way of thinking.
The AI routines should be improved so it doesn`t constantly repeat and the player is far less able to manipulate it. Not cop out and get rid of it. That`s the problem with Ca right now, they either cop out or do lazy workarounds when what it needs is a job well done.

As for ransoms of people, S2 right now does a great job trading of your\their children and it works really well. Neither is it something done lightly by the AI as it almost never ransoms its children. The AI seems on the ball most of the time with it. I was most dissapointed ransoming was not in R2 since anyone with a little knowledge of that time will know that Romans were ransomed and barbarians too, sometimes in their hundreds.

But CA have never been much good with historical authenticity as of Empire. It can be done if CA really want to- they have the ability I believe, they just need the will.

[DeliCiousTZM]

* Offer region.
* Ask for region. Torn Maybe
* Offer technology.
* Ask for technology. No
* Offer loan.
* Ask for loan. No
* Offer tribute.
* Ask for tribute. add per turn back, getting gift money already exist though.
* Offer map.
* Ask for map. No
* Offer resource.
* Ask for resource. Already exist
* Make peace with... Yes!
* Option for time limits on treaties. No
* Trade embargoes. Already exist
* Ransom character. No
* Bribe character. Already exist(Agent action)

[Lionheart11]

Ask for technology or trade techs.

Ask for loan/ offer loan.

Ransom character and take important prisioners.

I believe these were all in previous TW games and sorely missed by me.

[Stingray1399]

So far from all the previews I've seen it looks like there are only two small additions to diplomacy in Attila. One being arrange marriage and the other being gifting a region to a horde. This is extremely disappointing to say the least. The Total War map will continue to feel lifeless to me so long as diplomatic options are so barebones. If CA just added the options that were in previous games things would feel much more alive. Let's list the diplomatic options we think are needed:

* Offer region. Yes
* Ask for region. Yes
* Offer technology. Yes
* Ask for technology. Yes
* Offer loan. No
* Ask for loan. No
* Offer tribute. Yes
* Ask for tribute. Yes
* Offer map. Yes
* Ask for map. Yes
* Offer resource. No
* Ask for resource. No
* Make peace with... No
* Option for time limits on treaties YES.
* Trade embargoes Yes
* Ransom character No
* Bribe character No

Technology trades should only be for shared technologies, and should be VERY expensive. Not cheap like in Empire.

I can't see the AI successfully performing loans.

Map trading should be back, but should not enable diplomacy with factions. The player should still need to encounter a faction to have diplomacy enabled.

Resources are covered by trade. That being said, I would like them to fix trade route issues. (Inability to trade with an inland nation unless they have a land connection to your capital. I have a port next to them, why can't I trade?)

Make peace with is overpowered/unrealistic. UNLESS the two feuding states in question are both satrapies of the player nation. In which case, I do believe war is impossible between them.

Time limits on treaties is a must. It's annoying to have to break a treaty that you never planned on having forever. It would allow for more honesty in diplomacy. Notifications to resign treaties with willing nations could be a thing.

Ransoming and bribing characters is not applicable imo. Bribing is already covered by agents, anyway.

Here is one I'd like:
*Bring back user-input payment values (and treaty durations, for that matter).

[Le_Swede]

Make peace with is overpowered/unrealistic. UNLESS the two feuding states in question are both satrapies of the player nation. In which case, I do believe war is impossible between them.

Why would you say that this is overpowered/unrealistic?

If anything it would help the AI maintain some resemblence of balance of power. It would also stop the annoying habit of R2TW:s AI to join wars which you've gotten in to and then rush across half the map and starting conquering cities far far away from any of their own regions. Similary but not quite the same you would finally be able to stop your client states from carrying on with a war after you've made peace.

In terms of this being unrealistic well that is blatantly false as it was, and still is a common practice for states to protect their allies or other sovereign states by trying to accommodate a peace deal.

[Butan]

I played "Endless Legend" recently, and I think we could add a "Cold war" status (between peace and war) which enables skirmishes on a third party territory without declaring war.

Except for that I think blackberry kinda thought of everything possible. All those options could make it into a TW if the AI can cope with it, or we find interesting ideas to implement them without tinkering with the AI (I heard in another thread that you could give regions if an enemy army is inside of it? this kind of great idea).

[Caracala]

How would trading tech be possible when different factions have different tech trees?

[RedGuard]

How would trading tech be possible when different factions have different tech trees?

to my knowledge, the techs of this period were pretty much the same. not nearly as varied as Rome 2's period. I mean nearly everyone were capable of feilding heavily armored units, everyone could pretty much work Iron, everyone fought the same more or less. Romans/ Iranians were overwhelmingly Cav and Barbarians were mostly Infantry.

If someone better studied on the period would like to chime in and agree or disagree with me I'd be happy to be proven wrong.

[GussieFinkNottle]

A minor diplomacy issue I want resolved is bringing back the ability to specify exact amounts of money in transactions, rather than offering or requiring lump sums e.g. 1000, 2000. At the moment this is just an unnecessary annoyance as you have to toggle between offer and request to arrive at a more precise amount, even then a restricted one, and player-set amounts worked fine in Shogun 2.

But my biggest diplomacy gripe:
making peace needs to be revamped.
Currently getting into wars with large coalitions ranged on either side is easy enough - upon the declaration of war a faction's allies and client states/satrapies choose whether to join in or betray their treaties. New factions can join either side at any time, with a 'faction joins the war' notification, and warring states can request neutral factions join their wars or offer to join ones that they're not yet involved in. All of these mechanics to start wars with big coalitions are excellently implemented. But maddeningly, peace can only be made between two factions and making such a peace can both lower a faction's trustworthiness rating and make the other factions that were on their side angry, since they're still at war.

There needs to be a mechanic for negotating grand peace deals (essentially drawing up a proper treaty) involving more than two states, specifiying who each state is no longer at war with (since most factions will not be in an identical list of wars to their allies) so that grand wars can be wound down without needing the total obliteration of one side, and there aren't leftover warring minor factions after two big ones make peace. Firm friendships also need to be able to stay intact as you all stop fighting together, rather than getting annoyed that their ally went and got a peace deal behind their back.

The difficulty of achieving one of these should naturally be high, but not massive so that the mechanic is reasonably usable. No more messy interminable wars!

P.S. and before anyone says that wars were hard to end in history, easy to start and were frequently messy, that does not preclude the fact that peace treaties were a possibility, indeed a regular occurrence, and could involve many states. They are just hard to negotiate.

[Riekopo]

Remembered another one.

* Being able to call specific allies to war. Not all or nothing.

[Sharpe]

* Offer region - Noooooo, always abused by the AI
* Ask for region - Easily abused by rich player.
* Offer technology - Nope one of the worst features of Empire, soon enough everyone has the same tech and there is little individuality
* Ask for technology - See above
* Offer loan - Could work, interest rates? Wonga?
* Offer tribute - Isn't that already present?
* Offer map - Pointless but why not
* Make peace with - Yeee
* Trade embargoes - Isn't that already in the game?
* Ransom character - How do you capture them?
* Bribe character - Yeah, but when you are rolling in dough it is easily abused.

Being able to call specific allies to war. Not all or nothing - Already in the game? You just tick the boxes of the ones you want to join? Or is that Shogun? I haven't played in months.

[GussieFinkNottle]

Being able to call specific allies to war. Not all or nothing - Already in the game? You just tick the boxes of the ones you want to join? Or is that Shogun? I haven't played in months.

It is in Rome II. You don't ask the ones you think might refuse. What do you think of multiple faction peace?

[Butan]

Being able to call specific allies to war. Not all or nothing - Already in the game? You just tick the boxes of the ones you want to join? Or is that Shogun? I haven't played in months.

I think he means the "military alliance" effects of everyone being called, or noone, by ticking the "call allies?" box after being deced on. Of course you can refuse to call allies, then separately call them afterward, but its really annoying and I'm sure a lot of people never thought of doing that when faced with a wardec.

[Riekopo]

I think he means the "military alliance" effects of everyone being called, or noone, by ticking the "call allies?" box after being deced on. Of course you can refuse to call allies, then separately call them afterward, but its really annoying and I'm sure a lot of people never thought of doing that when faced with a wardec.

Yes that's what I meant.

[BotoxGod]

Wtf are you guys refusing or saying no to this. I don't mind if it's broken, Diplomacy has never been that strong in all the total war games due to striped or readded features. Even all this basic suggestions Civilization doesn't implemented them in the right way.

I agree with all if properly balanced as i want more campaign diplomacy

[Crasius]

Do any mods exist and/or is it possible for a mod that allows asking/giving of regions? It's the thing I most miss diplomacy-wise.

[wangrin]

May I propose something like this.
Of course this is heavily inspired by EUIV and some of the ideas are likely not possible in TW without adding new mechanisms.
Exchanging hostage should be added to the diagram below. I can't remember if the option exist in TWR2. I suppose yes.




I must say that the "claim" (casus belli) system from EUIV is very interesting, seriously limiting "incomprehensible" wars.

[Achilles Lacedaemon]

What about trading units/armies?

A "mercenary" diplomatic option where you give control of one determined army to another faction in exchange for some $$$.