Dalhousie University Thoughtcrime Scandal: "Dentistry, Feminism, and Smut, oh my!"

[King_Porus]

As most of you on TWC aren't Canadian and therefore probably haven't heard of this scandal, the articles I am about to post may seem like nothing more than unimportant local gossip. While this may be true at a glance, it is much more than that and raises a few important questions and has made national news for weeks here in Canada (the people are bored of Ukraine and Syria I guess).

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...ants-1.2890938

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle22310028/

The gist of it is that a group of about thirteen male 20-something year old students from the Dalhousie University dentistry program (moderately prestigious) have been suspended and could possibly be expelled and have their names released to the masses for posting sexually explicit comments in a facebook group.

The posts ranged from "who (out of the female students in our program) would you rather hate (have rough sex with)" to "does this cloth smell like chloroform?" commented on pictures of attractive women in bikinis.

While extreme feminists have started a rally cry to have these boys kicked out of the school/put in jail/castrated/etc, lots of average citizens are also calling for them to be kicked out and have the names released for fear that these men would go on to rape women after drugging them (as they referenced in their jokes). Other Canadians believe that it is normal for boys to joke about sex and vent their frustrations and that most never act on their fantasies.

TL;DR: Male dentistry students make jokes about have rough/non-consensual sex with women and may or may not be kicked out of school and have their names released, thus ending any chance of them getting any decent jobs in Canada.

My question for TWCers: Do these men deserve to have their lives ruined (since they'll never get a job in Canada if their names are released) or are people overreacting. Is this a case of "boys will be boys" or is the case against them legitimate?
Should schools be allowed to discipline/expel students for making childish remarks that don't actually break any laws?

edit: Just to be clear I'm not taking sides in this, just curious to hear what others think.

[Chukada1]

I'm familiar with this story. They absolutely deserve this punishment. These men are in a post-graduate degree program, so they're more like 24-28 years old. No longer boys. It would be different if they were in the first or second year of university, and haven't fully matured into adults, but these boys should be mature enough now. This wasn't like a private conversation between friends, but something they posted on Facebook which is a public domain. The university in question has a right to expel these students for sexual harassment, which is what they did.

Originally I didn't think they should receive this punishment, but then I learned how old somebody has to be to be in their last year of a Dentistry program. Its a long journey, like 8 years of education. If you're that old, you should know better. If they were 18-20 year old guys, then no, but seriously, when is the appropriate age for men not to make comments like that on Facebook? 30? 40? Lastly, the dentistry program is highly competitive, if these 13 students can't be dentists, there are 13 other students who would fill this gap easily. Canada isn't hurting for dentists. Lastly, do you want one of these 26-28 year olds who still post this stuff on Facebook to be your dentist? What if you were a woman?

[King_Porus]

I'm familiar with this story. They absolutely deserve this punishment. These men are in a post-graduate degree program, so they're more like 24-28 years old. No longer boys. It would be different if they were in the first or second year of university, and haven't fully matured into adults, but these boys should be mature enough now. This wasn't like a private conversation between friends, but something they posted on Facebook which is a public domain. The university in question has a right to expel these students for sexual harassment, which is what they did.

Originally I didn't think they should receive this punishment, but then I learned how old somebody has to be to be in their last year of a Dentistry program. Its a long journey, like 8 years of education. If you're that old, you should know better. If they were 18-20 year old guys, then no, but seriously, when is the appropriate age for men not to make comments like that on Facebook? 30? 40? Lastly, the dentistry program is highly competitive, if these 13 students can't be dentists, there are 13 other students who would fill this gap easily. Canada isn't hurting for dentists. Lastly, do you want one of these 26-28 year olds who still post this stuff on Facebook to be your dentist? What if you were a woman?

I'd like to specifically address your bolded comments and would just like to make it clear I'm not trying to take sides and can see both sides of the argument.

A) The dentistry student were likely in their early 20s and could have been as young as 23 I believe. But would it really be different if they were 18-22? If a 20 year-old student studying in an equally important (pre-med, engineering, etc) made the same comments would they be punished? Is their an invisible line in the sand somewhere? What makes it OK for a 20 year-old undergrad student to say that they want to have rough sex with a woman versus a 25-year old graduate student saying it?

B) The way I understood it, it was a private facebook group that they were posting on. And again, if it were private conversation, would it be any different? If these boys said these things in their flat, would it not be just as bad? Is it unreasonable to think that these kinds of conversations happen all the time and just never go public or have any long term effect?

C) Would I want them as my dentist? Now that their conversation has gone public? Not really sure. Since I'm not a woman I don't think I can really make that call. But do you really think that they would have acted on any of these things they said? People post all kinds of crazy things on the internet that they will never act on. People have all kinds of crazy thoughts that they never act on. Some doctors/lawyers/other professionals have extreme beliefs that they never act upon and will never be punished for them. Your dentist may be a neo-Nazi for all you know

[the_mango55]

The university in question has a right to expel these students for sexual harassment, which is what they did.

Maybe I'm not as familiar with the story as you, but who were they harassing?

[removeduser_487563287433]

Maybe I'm not as familiar with the story as you, but who were they harassing?

Fellow students. Says so in the source.

[Derpy Hooves]

If Canadians don't value free speech, then yes they should be punished and have their lives ruined. If Canadians value free speech, no they do not need to be punished, and hell no they should not have their lives ruined.

[Chukada1]

If Canadians don't value free speech, then yes they should be punished and have their lives ruined. If Canadians value free speech, no they do not need to be punished, and hell no they should not have their lives ruined.

Canadians don't allow hate speech, which is what this is. You don't need to be posting about which classmates you would rape on facebook, and how you would rape them. There is nothing political or religious about this, there are no freedom undertones. You also can't publicly say that you want to kill all *insert demographic here* and get away with it. That's classified as hate speech, which is different than freedom of speech. What about the freedom of hearing? I have a right not to have to hear that crap.

The dentistry program at Dalhousie is highly competitive and only the best are allowed in. They only allow 39 students each year to enter the program. These were fourth year students, and on top of that, these students agreed with the university that sexual harassment would not be permitted, and is grounds for disciplinary action. Well they committed sexual harassment, so now they are receiving disciplinary action.

Lastly, do you want somebody this dumb to be your dentist?

[DisgruntledGoat]

If Canadians don't value free speech, then yes they should be punished and have their lives ruined. If Canadians value free speech, no they do not need to be punished, and hell no they should not have their lives ruined.

Good lord, learn what free speech is. Free speech isn't about getting to say whatever you want without consequence. This comic might help you out.

[Phier]

Good lord, learn what free speech is. Free speech isn't about getting to say whatever you want without consequence. This comic might help you out.

When you say an off color joke in private, and someone takes offense, the general reaction should not be a public desire to kick them out of school, just think they are jerks.

Knowing dental students, odds are one of these boys/men wanted to raise their rank in class. Class ranking is everything in dental/med school (provided you are not a minority) when it comes to specializing.

[DisgruntledGoat]

When you say an off color joke in private, and someone takes offense, the general reaction should not be a public desire to kick them out of school, just think they are jerks.

Knowing dental students, odds are one of these boys/men wanted to raise their rank in class. Class ranking is everything in dental/med school (provided you are not a minority) when it comes to specializing.

Except this wasn't a single off colour joke in private. It was a repeated behaviour posted online. The school has the right to uphold what it views as the proper personal character of its students. Much like an employer has the right. You're obsession with the idea that because these were, in some sense, private conversations does not in anyway make what was said and done any less reflective of the character and behaviour of those students. This isn't the same as suspending them for their religion or their sexual orientation. Don't try and portray it as some violation of their rights. Privacy at the time doesn't protect you from consequences once it is made public. What you do in privacy reflects on you as much as what you do in public.

[Phier]

Except this wasn't a single off colour joke in private. It was a repeated behaviour posted online. The school has the right to uphold what it views as the proper personal character of its students. Much like an employer has the right. You're obsession with the idea that because these were, in some sense, private conversations does not in anyway make what was said and done any less reflective of the character and behaviour of those students. This isn't the same as suspending them for their religion or their sexual orientation. Don't try and portray it as some violation of their rights. Privacy at the time doesn't protect you from consequences once it is made public. What you do in privacy reflects on you as much as what you do in public.

Blah blah, whatever. Kids these days do EVERYTHING on line. The fact it was written instead of spoken is meaningless in todays world. The school has the right, and I have the right to call it stupid. When I think of things that should have gotten people I know kicked out of school that didn't, this is just minor PC rambling SJW crap because feelings are hurt.

[Mangalore]

If Canadians don't value free speech, then yes they should be punished and have their lives ruined. If Canadians value free speech, no they do not need to be punished, and hell no they should not have their lives ruined.

freedom of speech doesn't mean what you think it means...

[justicar5]

If Canadians don't value free speech, then yes they should be punished and have their lives ruined. If Canadians value free speech, no they do not need to be punished, and hell no they should not have their lives ruined.

free speech does not include incitement to rape.

[Derpy Hooves]

​But it wasn't public anyways. This was all conducted privately, until one person revealed all the contents.
Dumb? I don't care what beliefs my dentist has or what jokes they make, as long as they can do their job. That is all that matters. Is it sexual harassment when two guys are privately discussing women?

[Chukada1]

​But it wasn't public anyways. This was all conducted privately, until one person revealed all the contents.
Dumb? I don't care what beliefs my dentist has or what jokes they make, as long as they can do their job. That is all that matters. Is it sexual harassment when two guys are privately discussing women?

I highly suspect you're not a Canadian.

[nce_wht_guy]

​But it wasn't public anyways. This was all conducted privately, until one person revealed all the contents.
Dumb? I don't care what beliefs my dentist has or what jokes they make, as long as they can do their job. That is all that matters. Is it sexual harassment when two guys are privately discussing women?

Mmmm I don't think I'd want the guy I'm supposed to trust to take care of me while I'm unconscious to have a cavalier attitude towards rape.

[ScytheRayne]

Mmmm I don't think I'd want the guy I'm supposed to trust to take care of me while I'm unconscious to have a cavalier attitude towards rape.

Are you quite sure he holds a cavalier attitude towards rape, or was he playing on a taboo for shock humour within a group setting?

[nce_wht_guy]

Are you quite sure he holds a cavalier attitude towards rape, or was he playing on a taboo for shock humour within a group setting?

Would you and your anus really like to roll the dice and find out?

[ScytheRayne]

Would you and your anus really like to roll the dice and find out?

I suspect they're more interested in individuals of the female persuasion. And yes I would.

[Derpy Hooves]

No, I'm an American that values freedom of speech. Your point?