No Peace in Our Time - the 1939 World War II IH

[Barry Goldwater]

Yeah, if your historical OOB has more advanced units than you can buy, you can keep those. You can't build new advanced units (or recover losses inflicted on those advanced units, for that matter) until you reach the appropriate tech level, though. Also, you can still keep oil-guzzling units if you have no oil, just negotiate an oil deal with someone else ahead of time. You're also paying upkeep costs on historical units, you just don't have to pay the initial cost; so if your army's upkeep cost exceeds your income, then yeah it'd be a pretty good idea to trim some units unless you're planning to conquer & loot other people's provinces for the $$$ to sustain them.

[Dave Strider]

Btw, Perry, I just asked Barry on Skype, and indeed, starting armies only cost our upkeep, not full price.

[Barry Goldwater]

^More specifically, you'll still have your starting income to work with when the game starts, you just can't have more troops than you can pay for unless you're using a historical OOB. And in that case, like I said above you might wanna trim some units so you'll stay in the green financially anyway, unless you're planning to conquer/loot enemy provs.

[Pericles of Athens]

Btw, Perry, I just asked Barry on Skype, and indeed, starting armies only cost our upkeep, not full price.

That seems silly to me, but Barry has the definitive say on such things.

Edit
My phone auto-corrected 'Barry' to 'Barty'.

[Dave Strider]

How is it silly? They're units we already have at game start, they've all been recruited prior to the beginning of the game, so we're just paying upkeep on them.

[Pericles of Athens]

Perhaps because it makes it so every country is at maximum war time capacity even though most nations were still in a peace time state at this point. I personally think nation's should have to expand their militaries to reach full war time capacity, as they did historically. But even so I accept Barry's word on the matter.

[Dan the Man]

That would be ideal, but it would be hard to come by statistics for that.

[chesser2538]

I'm not going for full historical accuracy. I just want to know, If Romania had a few armored divisions in their OOB are they included in my army and then new ones need to be unlocked through tech research. Or if I do don't get any at the start. As well as the question posed about upkeep cost.

[Dave Strider]

Barry answered those questions. If you have armored forces in your historical 1939 OOB, you get them at the start of the game - but you can't retrain them, or build additional units of that type. For their oil upkeep, get a trade agreement with someone to pay for it, simple as that.

EDIT: Wait, you're Rumania? Rumania has oil, you should be all set.

[Dan the Man]

Romania has lots of oil, I drew it on the map myself. Check around Iasi in Moldavia.

[Dirty Chai]

I was thinking that Conscript units should have an upkeep, even if they have no recruitment cost.

[Iron Aquilifer]

If you say so, Daaaaaan. I'll just invade and start occupation in the meantime.

Also, if anyone needs oil, hell, I'll donate some of my oil income to them. I've got like 1 million barrels per turn surplus. I'll give oil to my enemies, I don't give a . I'm Soviet Arabia over here.

Yugoslavia and Bulgaria would be both be after in the region of 5-10k of barrels of oil a turn. We got money, and Bulgaria got Communist feelings.

[Dirty Chai]

Okay, so, yeah, I'm pretty much done here I think.
Unless anyone has something to point out or protest against?
Definitely let me know if anyone spots duplicate divisions (like two different "1st Divisions").

But hey, this is just my land army.
I have no idea what the ROC has for planes and tugboats, but I doubt it's anything significant.

Now, before you start questioning the size, I think this is pretty good, considering it actually historically had something closer to 2 million rather than the 1.5 I have, and this is supposed to essentially encompass every single ethnic Chinese military group that isn't Communist and has not become collaborationist with the Japanese.
So yeah, it's a big, marauding peasant army, that hates everyone.
And this is just under 3% of the total population. So don't come barking up this tree.

Total Men: 1,440,000
Total Upkeep: 251,500
Oil Usage: 3,600B

War Area 1 - Yellow River Hulao Pass, Kaifeng, Xuchang

War Area 1 - 140,000; $25,000 - Yellow River Hulao Pass, Kaifeng, Xuchang 111th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 163rd Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 7th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 New 3rd Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 2nd Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 New 27th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 54th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 85th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 65th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 New 47th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 10th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 New 4th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 58th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 10th Cavalry (Cav) - 5,000 men - $3,000 New 4th Cavalry (Cav) - 5,000 men - $3,000

War Area 2 - Shaanxi/Shensi and Shanxi/Shansi, Upper Yellow River

War Area 2 - 140,000; $22,500 - Shaanxi/Shensi and Shanxi/Shansi, Upper Yellow River New 35th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 177th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 68th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 69th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 86th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 86th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 73rd Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 37th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 42nd Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 38th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 41st Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 44th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 45th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 1st Cavalry (Cav) - 5,000 men - $3,000 2nd Cavalry (Cav) - 5,000 men - $3,000

War Area 3 - Jiangnan, Wu, south of Yangtze

War Area 3 - 140,000; $22,000 - Jiangnan, Wu, south of Yangtze 26th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 146th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 148th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 New 7th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 New 30th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 75th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 40th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 108th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 32nd Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 41st Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 16th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 67th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 5th Motorized Division (Motor) - 10,000 men - $3,000 - 600B 32nd Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000

War Area 4 - Far Southern Coast along Cantonese area

War Area 4 - 220,000; $31,500 - Far Southern Coast along Cantonese area 93rd Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 14th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 131st Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 170th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 New 19th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 156th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 New 28th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 9th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 76th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 New 22nd Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 157th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 152nd Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 186th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 160th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 66th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 49th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 50th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 15th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 52nd Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 59th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 55th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 200th Motorized Division (Motor) - 10,000 men - $3,000 - 600B

War Area 5 - Hubei/Hunan, east of Sichuan, west of Hankou, Mountain positions along western Yangtze

War Area 5 - 360,000; $65,000 - Hubei/Hunan, east of Sichuan, west of Hankou, Mountain positions along western Yangtze 27th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 191st Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 29th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 180th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 143rd Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 142nd Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 110th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 New 1st Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 18th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 199th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 188th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 4th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 172nd Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 138th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 124th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 127th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 15th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 36th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 88th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 13th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 132nd Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 179th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 1st Honor Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 130th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 16th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 36th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 14th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 5th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 40th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 46th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 47th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 16th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 7th Motorized Division (Motor) - 10,000 men - $3,000 - 600B 11th Motorized Division (Motor) - 10,000 men - $3,000 - 600B 3rd Guerrillas (Light) - 5,000 men - $4,500 4th Guerrillas (Light) - 5,000 men - $4,500 4th Cavalry (Cav) - 5,000 men - $3,000 9th Cavalry (Cav) - 5,000 men - $3,000

War Area 8 - Gansu, Xinjiang, Ningxia, Siuyuan, Inner Mongolia, Wei River Valley

War Area 8 - 105,000; $25,500 - Gansu, Xinjiang, Ningxia, Siuyuan, Inner Mongolia, Wei River Valley 35th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 100th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 101st Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 New 31st Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 New 32nd Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 61st Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 6th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 31st Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 5th Cavalry (Cav) - 5,000 men - $3,000 1st Cavalry (Cav) - 5,000 men - $3,000 New 8th Cavalry (Cav) - 5,000 men - $3,000 New 3rd Cavalry (Cav) - 5,000 men - $3,000 New 4th Cavalry (Cav) - 5,000 men - $3,000

War Area 9 - West of Lake Dongting

War Area 9 - 215,000; $36,500 - West of Lake Dongting New 11th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 3rd Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 190th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 140th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 183rd Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 12th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 19th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 New 14th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 New 15th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 51st Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 43rd Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 133rd Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 82nd Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 New 13th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 New 16th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 102nd Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 197th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 5th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 6th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 10th Motorized Division (Motor) - 10,000 men - $3,000 - 600B 9th Motorized Division (Motor) - 10,000 men - $3,000 - 600B New 7th Cavalry (Cav) - 5,000 men - $3,000

War Area 10 - Western Dabie Mountains, Xiangyang

War Area 10 - 120,000; $23,500 - Western Dabie Mountains, Xiangyang 78th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 167th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 53rd Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 61st Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 114th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 20th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 98th Division (Inf) - 10,000 - $1,500 6th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 4th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 64th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 14th Provisional Division (Con) - 10,000 - $1,000 1st Guerrillas (Light) - 5,000 men - $4,500 2nd Guerrillas (Light) - 5,000 men - $4,500

[Dave Strider]

Looks good to me.

@Iron: Really? Bulgaria's got Communist sympathies in 1939? I don't know my interwar history as well as I'd like to

[Pericles of Athens]

Yugoslavia and Bulgaria would be both be after in the region of 5-10k of barrels of oil a turn. We got money, and Bulgaria got Communist feelings.

At this point wasn't Bulgaria a Tsardom with pro-German sympathies? Communists held partially control of the government back in he 1920's but the Tsar seized full power again in the 1930's. When communists finally did take the country it took a coup funded and supported by the Red Army.

[Dan the Man]

At this point wasn't Bulgaria a Tsardom with pro-German sympathies? Communists held partially control of the government back in he 1920's but the Tsar seized full power again in the 1930's. When communists finally did take the country it took a coup funded and supported by the Red Army.

This. Most of the Southeastern European countries were monarchies (at least nominally in the case of Hungary) who had communist revolutionaries funded by the Soviets just after the war. One of the few that managed to hold out was Greece, because the Allies were pouring in just as much support for the counterrevolutionaries as the Soviets were throwing in for the revolutionaries.

[Iron Aquilifer]

Yeah, but I was sure I read on the wiki that the gov. didnt want to declare on Soviet Russia due to communist sympathies or something.

[Dan the Man]

Bulgaria in general didn't really want to get involved, and stayed out of the war until 1940 when Germany basically forced them to give military access (putting this in EU4 terms here ) and to join the Tripartite Pact. This was so that German forces could march through the country to help the Italians who were bogged down in Greece. The Bulgarian government was also persuaded by the Bulgarian Orthodox Church and other anti-collaborationist dissidents to prevent the deportation of Bulgarian Jews to concentration camps. Communist guerrillas rose up in the country in response to Operation Barbarossa and the ongoing war against the USSR (which Bulgaria was again dragged into), but these were obviously opposed to the Tsarist government, not at all affiliated with it.

Resistance movements - both left and right wing - did eventually lead to the overthrow of the Bulgarian government in 1944, with right wing nationalists in Macedonia even temporarily establishing an independent, pro-Bulgarian state. The new Bulgarian government promptly joined the Allies, but was later unseated by the Soviets who instated a new communist government under Georgi Dimitrov.

All in all, Bulgaria was probably the most reluctant member of the Axis - at least in Europe. This was not due to communist sympathies, but rather mostly because they never really wanted to get involved in the first place. They just had no other recourse at the time but to do what the Germans told them to do.

[Barry Goldwater]

^What they said. Bulgaria may not have been an eager supporter of the Nazis in the way that, say, the Ustasha were, but that didn't mean they were filled with secret Communists either. If they had the choice, I'd bet on them sitting out of WW2 altogether.

So, to finalize the faction bonuses + the new Left-Wing Authoritarian bonus/malus (split off from the old Dictatorship bonus/malus, to be renamed 'Right-Wing Authoritarian' instead) + the new conscript price:

USA: 'Arsenal of Democracy': -10% costs & build time for units & infrastructure
UK: 'Britannia Rules the Waves': +1 quality star to all naval units
France: 'La Résistance': Enemy troops occupying Metropolitan France suffer a permanent 2% attrition penalty; if Free French or Allied forces successfully set foot back in the mainland post-defeat, partisans will rise up every turn to help throw the occupiers out
Italy: 'Marcia dei Legioni': For every full Trajan-era Roman province ruled directly by the Italians (no puppet states), Italian forces gain a morale boost.
Republic of China: 'White Sun's Flare': The Nationalists can use conscription once a year as long as they are at war, unlike all other powers which can only use conscription once
USSR: 'Velíkaya Otéchestvennaya Voyná': 2x partisans spawned in enemy-occupied territories
Germany: 'Wunderwaffen': -10% Special Weapons tech research costs & -3 days' research time
Japan: 'Tennouheika Banzai': Units (land & naval both) can be ordered to fight to the bitter end, and will do so without fail every time
Finland: 'Talvisota': Land units are twice as powerful when defending in winter
Poland: 'Kotwica': The Polish Home Army will never cease respawning partisans unless the Allies are defeated or Poland is liberated/'liberated' by another power

Left-Wing Authoritarian: Communist governments are able to embark on Collectivization programs, gaining a -5% bonus to building time & cost in return for a +5% dissent hit. The bonus conferred by Collectivization will last a year but the olicy can be renewed annually, for additional 5% dissent hit every time.

Conscript update: Conscript units now cost $1,000 in upkeep, though they can still be spawned for free via conscription orders.

Any objections or suggestions, before I make the above really-really final?

[Dirty Chai]

I like em. What is the Right Wing Authoritarian bonus?
Also updated my earlier post with the Conscript upkeep, adding about 31,000 dollars in upkeep a year.

I'm going to put all my money to use to try to upgrade my tech and get some air force support to fight the Japanese.