Routing units on nearby units morale

[rjacko10]

First off: really love 1.0

Secondly: The last time I played DeI was a long time ago.. in the summer. At this time units morale took a nose dive if nearby units routed. This often cascaded throughout army lines and large clusters of units would often end up routing together. I liked this as I used to look for units with dipping morale and target them (or move them to safety if they were in my army). It felt tactical and realistic.

From what I've noticed this same effect isn't present in v1.0, at least not to the same extent. I'm curious to know what was the reason for it's amendment?

Thirdly: Happy New Year

[Alzuule]

From what ive noticed of my limited playing this is still very much the case, atleast in most fights ive had as macedon against thracians, once the first unit routs out of a cluster the others are quick to follow if they too have low morale.

[Daergar]

It is present, it just kicks in far later when defeat becomes utterly obvious. The reason, I assume, is that it wasn't very realistic at all for an entire army to domino into terror because a single unit got routed.

And I would presume it depends largely on the enemy morale, both for the army itself and for units specifically. Since the AI doesn't field stacks of trash, all with the same low morale, the cascading effect isn't as common for that reason alone.

[Aethyr]

I used to play DeI with that historically accurate mod (the name eludes me at present), I liked how units would route a short distance then return to the fray. It happened fairly. Frequently, shattering units only happened when again, the battle was utterly hopeless or by chasing down the fleeing units.

The battle line was far more chaotic and it really paid to redress the lines.

[Lieutenant Sharpe]

The cascade effect still works, although some units have extremely high morale. Last battle I fought, I routed 1/2 of the enemy army and was left with 5-6 units with 80+ morale. I full encircled them, rear charged, for 15 minutes. Halfway through I realized I was on four times speed. My cavalry was out of commission from rear charges after only 2-3 rear charges. Each charge only killed 5-10 enemies and cost me twice as many in horsemen. I can understand prolonged combat destroying cav, but quick charges shouldn't. At one point an enemy unit last 3-4 min completely surrounded by 6-7 units, 1000+ men. Honestly, how else can I route people if full encirclement with infantry doesn't work.

[Alzuule]

Yeah ive wound up pretty much just using my very heavy shock cavalry for killing skirmishers and enemy light/medium cavalry since engaging anything but light infantry decimates the unit after less rear charges than it takes to rout a fresh melee infantry engaged with my hoplites, if i do end up engaging melee infantry its when they are already very tired or exhausted from battling my hoplites/pikemen.

[rjacko10]

I'm mostly playing with cheap, early campaign units (inc garrison units) and I am not worried about this cascading effect when one of my units rout. The impact is not large enough. I've actually had trash units hold their ground for a long time after units either side have long since routed.

In previous DEI versions I would be like "uh-oh, get these boys out of the front line quickly before a whole section of the front line collapses". It was a real threat to be constantly vigilant of. It also encouraged the cycling of the front line with fresh troops.

I would personally like this effect toned up a bit to reintroduce more complex battles.

[meerkatology]

units generally have higher moral now and fights last even longer than before.

routing effect also depends alot of local numeric superiorty even if you have a low quality unit route, if they are nearby units aren't being outnumber or severely outmatch'ed they'll probably be ok.

i mean it makes sense. its not like your line of veteran legions would all route if one nearby unit of auxiliary spearmen got routed by a cav charge or something...

[KAM 2150]

Previously largest complain wat that flanking was to easy to pull of and armies routed with no problem. Now it is a bit different and harder. Also units get bonus to morale if they are winning so if you encircle some super elite infantry with bunch of levies, they will still hold as they know they can beat them, which makes a lot of sense, because why they should rout it they are winning.

[Hetzen]

I much, much prefer the current system. Now, it is true that historically it did not take much for levy armies to route, but it also makes no sense for elite troops to waver when they see some low tier skirmishers get cut down. Hell, roman legions probably laughed to see non-roman auxillaries fail.

Battles just seen more fluid and progress from early, middle, and cleanup phases now as compared to the past where battles consisted of the line-up phase, the charge with a single unit of cavalry, and the click end battle phase.

[Lieutenant Sharpe]

To an extent battles are much more enjoyable because they are more difficult. However, it is somewhat annoying when your triarii and principe have no way of quickly destroying a surrounded and outnumbered Gaulic unit with 80 morale. One thing I'm wondering, is anyone getting any really decisive and realistic victories? Often the victors took minimal casualties, but with 1.0 I'm facing severe casualties in most battles (although one thing I realy like is the kill rates after the route in 1.0) .96 I had some bad battles, but often I could pull off great victories. Perhaps more interestingly, has anyone lost a major battle yet? I feel like the AI could pull it off now, but so far I've been able to muster adequate armies to face them.