Economy managing tips?

[BooBooLovesAll]

First off.. incredible mod.

I learned quick that auto resolve is not your friend, and with a bit of strategy and forward thinking, you can turn certain defeat into a close victory.

However, as Rome, the economy is killing me. I sometimes run with 100 or 200 income. God help me if i lose a trade agreement.

My armies aren't huge either. Any tips to start off?

[itsM]

i havent played as rome yet but in my galatian campaign i got my butt kicked by seleucids and their satrapies. got rebelions due to different tipe of culture in the region and my economy was bad . Well its very hard but i like it, im on turn 35 and still only got 2 city my capital and mazaka from cappadocians. I will try to trade with pontus and other greek nations around black sea.

[xisheng]

There's no tips. Either use pfm to lower the upkeep and recruitment costs to 0.96 values or wait for them to do that, because 1.0 isn't hard, its just plain annoying, I'm very good at TW games, been at them for years playing through EB, RS, DM and all the vanillas, all 1.0 did was increase numbers to some made up values justifying everything by playing "welcome to real life" card, when the most simplistic narration of Histories by Polybius can give 100 counter-arguments based on factual evidence that what they say is real is not and was not in fact so , i think with so many parts they undertook the team forgot the difference between historical accuracy, gameplay and realism. Knew i shouldn't hype myself, just glad i didn't delete 0.96. Long ways to go to make this into an overhaul it wants to be.

[Alu10]

There's no tips. Either use pfm to lower the upkeep and recruitment costs to 0.96 values or wait for them to do that, because 1.0 isn't hard, its just plain annoying, I'm very good at TW games, been at them for years playing through EB, RS, DM and all the vanillas, all 1.0 did was increase numbers to some made up values justifying everything by playing "welcome to real life" card, when the most simplistic narration of Histories by Polybius can give 100 counter-arguments based on factual evidence that what they say is real is not and was not in fact so , i think with so many parts they undertook the team forgot the difference between historical accuracy, gameplay and realism. Knew i shouldn't hype myself, just glad i didn't delete 0.96. Long ways to go to make this into an overhaul it wants to be.

You didnt explain why it is annoying, you simply said: its annoying, unit cards, mod isnt realistic, 0.96 better.

[meerkatology]

There's no tips. Either use pfm to lower the upkeep and recruitment costs to 0.96 values or wait for them to do that, because 1.0 isn't hard, its just plain annoying, I'm very good at TW games, been at them for years playing through EB, RS, DM and all the vanillas, all 1.0 did was increase numbers to some made up values justifying everything by playing "welcome to real life" card, when the most simplistic narration of Histories by Polybius can give 100 counter-arguments based on factual evidence that what they say is real is not and was not in fact so , i think with so many parts they undertook the team forgot the difference between historical accuracy, gameplay and realism. Knew i shouldn't hype myself, just glad i didn't delete 0.96. Long ways to go to make this into an overhaul it wants to be.

I'm sure you are probably playing on VH or something that we'd do on any of the afformentioned mods, but I think 1.0 simply isn't meant to be played on VH if you don't want it to be extremely annoying.
I'm a huge RS fan, but one thing with RS is that mid/late game, both you and AI have so many armies, you are fighting 5+ battles everyturn, THAT gets annoying and repetitive.

With high costs here there's much fewer but more meaningful battles. I think its a good thing. if you want full stacks, you'd want to pick up a good mix of cheaper ranged/aux units rather than elite unit spamming, which promotes historical accuracy.
It's true that rome had alot more "stacks" in actual history, but one can only go so far in being historically accurate without compromising gameplay fun, do you really wanna manage 50 stacks and fight 30 battles every turn by the time you reach imperial era?

as to the OP, lower difficulty if econ is too hard. don't just research into military techs like you did before, you need to research the econ/philosphy techs to help public order otherwise you can't even tax your stuff. only have 1 military production province for a very long time, with like 6+ recruitment slots and high costs its more than enough, best econ/public order stuff for the rest.

DON"T go to war with carthage, it gets you a large amount of trade income, its generally better to go to war with factions who refuse to trade with you.
Plan ahead when you go to war, be aware who their allies are, and only go to war if you can win quickly, like anhilate them within a few turns.

roman units are pretty good now, you can beat much larger barb armies most of the time, as long as you take out enemy archers with general+~1 unit of cav. you often do not need fullstack to win.
if you position well and don't get pelted by ranged fire, triarii in phalanx in early game vs anything feels like spartans in 300.

[PonySlaystation]

There's no tips. Either use pfm to lower the upkeep and recruitment costs to 0.96 values or wait for them to do that, because 1.0 isn't hard, its just plain annoying, I'm very good at TW games, been at them for years playing through EB, RS, DM and all the vanillas, all 1.0 did was increase numbers to some made up values justifying everything by playing "welcome to real life" card, when the most simplistic narration of Histories by Polybius can give 100 counter-arguments based on factual evidence that what they say is real is not and was not in fact so , i think with so many parts they undertook the team forgot the difference between historical accuracy, gameplay and realism. Knew i shouldn't hype myself, just glad i didn't delete 0.96. Long ways to go to make this into an overhaul it wants to be.

i had basically no income while supporting not even two full armies until turn 80 with rome. after about 30-40 turns on focusing on the economy (and no direct war) got a really good income boost (about 3k, no building > level 2 atm). so i think with lvl 3 and lvl 4 buildings you still can support quite numerous armies with mixed quality. probably not all elite...but a good mix.

if you plan your provinces and manage your PO the right way its managable. also the focus of DeI 1.0 was to make Very Hard Campaigns "Very Hard" or Hard Campaigns "Hard". and i think they managed to get to this point. if its too hard (or annoying) you can always lower the difficulty instead of going back to 0.96. i love those changes to the economy because its no grind anymore and the campaign is slowly evolving and not peaking into a grinding fest after you managed to hold 3-4 provinces.

sadly you cant change the battle difficulty on legendary settings or those campaigns would be indeed "Legendary"

First off.. incredible mod.

I learned quick that auto resolve is not your friend, and with a bit of strategy and forward thinking, you can turn certain defeat into a close victory.

However, as Rome, the economy is killing me. I sometimes run with 100 or 200 income. God help me if i lose a trade agreement.

My armies aren't huge either. Any tips to start off?

i had the same thoughts in the beginning just take your time, make allies and pick your enemies carefully and dont attack if you arent sure you can beat them. i´d suggest also to forge a NAP with carthage and syracuse and focus for cisalpine first. after you got that province you can aim for greece/sardinia or sicily depending on who is winning the wars etc. expanding north wasnt really a choice for me since they all were allied. maybe massilia if you have the chance on jumping them and then expanding into spain.

also focus on your economy and get some agent-governours (you can recruit three of them right from the start) and maybe even general governours who sit in your cities and gain xp-->level ups into economic traits.

[jazebiker]

The economy is a bit sticky. Rome is one of the few factions that actually has an economy in 1.0. I'm pretty much writing off nomadic factions as impossible until they roll the income from buildings and settlements back to what they were in 0.96.

For Rome, build lots of farms, brick ovens, shrines, stadia, and arenas. You'll need all the food for the shrines, stadia, and arenas. You'll need the shrines, arenas, and stadia to keep public order in check from building so many farms and brick ovens. A level 3 brick oven is worth 400/turn, and if you build harbors in Neapolis and Ariminium, Italia kicks out some pretty good income, if you can keep the populace from revolting.

That's the other minor gripe I have right now. Public order and diplomacy are insane. And is it just me, or did the research times actually get LONGER?

[tumbitiger]

Only in early game with Macedon 49 turns, and am not finding the economy incredibly crippling. Currently hold 7 regions which include 3 cities (Pella, Pulpudeva and Singidunand 1 entire province (Thrace). Currently have 2 stacks of 19 which include 1xShield bearers, 2xSarissa Cav, 6xPikemen, 4xHoplites, 4xGreek archers, 2x Peltasts as well as two garrisons consisting of 1xShield bearers and 1xPikemen. This costs me ~$6,700 in upkeep.. Even with that I am making $1,088/turn in revenue (tax rate on High), increasing every turn.

My advice would be:
A) Don't rush! Consolidate what you have at the start by investing in economical infrastructure eg. ports, Industrial buildings and City upgrades if you have food to spare etc.

B) You can maintain a smaller force while doing this by garrisoning them. If the enemy want to break themselves against you walls they are welcome to do so

C) TRADE! Plot out lucrative trade partners that you are not planning to attack any time soon. Even though you may only get ~$80/turn at the beginning, this will grow each turn. Also all the major factions tend to give around~$350/turn in trade from the get go ( I find Egypt are usually more willing than most to trade).

D) Specialise selected generals to become a governor of a City. They no longer cost neg public order when in cities on their own. Make sure they are the cheapest general unit though, as they still cost upkeep. Also use Dignitary's as tax vacumes.

E) Once you are feeling financially comfortable, build yourself an army worthy of Mordor!... But don't fall into the trap of Elite stacks! Upkeep for elite units has been significantly risen. You will need to find a balance between Elite and regulars. Also if you are safe to do so, put army's in 'Patrol region' stance. This will save you >$300/full stack in upkeep/turn.

[Grizwald714]

It is a lot more challenging but I really like the new economy because it slows the game down a lot and gets rid of the grinding.
Besides what tumbitiger said here is some advie I learned from playing as Rome in 1.0:

1. Take the begging very slow Leave Carthage be for the begging take Casalpina around turn 15 or 20 after you build up your economy and build up 2 full legions. Also another trick is to recruit units in order or lowest upkeep to highest upkeep it can make a big difference.

2. Don't turn Rome into a military Provience only build a legion and auxiliary barracks everything else should be commerce based and build one farm because you will need the food early game but convert later after you take Sicily. Casalpina I generally turn into a industry province. After I takeTurn the Sicily Provience into your bread basket.

3. get govoners ASAP after you do the first 2 military reds to gets legions and auxiliary because they are a big help.

4. Upgrade your battle generals to be 1/2 military and half 1/2 diplomat with po and food bonus's. I general use the same amount of generals as govoners besides regular govoners to help with PO/Economy/food

5. Wait to take on Carthage till around turn 40 or 50 after your first reform and your economy has been built up so you can field more stacks

6. Disband unused armies I usually only keep one stack around in the beginning. Also no will generally attack you at the start of the campaign for quite awhile so you can disband most of your units in the beginning just keep a very minimal amount to save money.

[BooBooLovesAll]

It is a lot more challenging but I really like the new economy because it slows the game down a lot and gets rid of the grinding.
Besides what tumbitiger said here is some advie I learned from playing as Rome in 1.0:

1. Take the begging very slow Leave Carthage be for the begging take Casalpina around turn 15 or 20 after you build up your economy and build up 2 full legions. Also another trick is to recruit units in order or lowest upkeep to highest upkeep it can make a big difference.

2. Don't turn Rome into a military Provience only build a legion and auxiliary barracks everything else should be commerce based and build one farm because you will need the food early game but convert later after you take Sicily. Casalpina I generally turn into a industry province. After I takeTurn the Sicily Provience into your bread basket.

3. get govoners ASAP after you do the first 2 military reds to gets legions and auxiliary because they are a big help.

4. Upgrade your battle generals to be 1/2 military and half 1/2 diplomat with po and food bonus's. I general use the same amount of generals as govoners besides regular govoners to help with PO/Economy/food

5. Wait to take on Carthage till around turn 40 or 50 after your first reform and your economy has been built up so you can field more stacks

6. Disband unused armies I usually only keep one stack around in the beginning. Also no will generally attack you at the start of the campaign for quite awhile so you can disband most of your units in the beginning just keep a very minimal amount to save money.

2 full legions? Sounds a bit costly.

[Alu10]

I am having some good time and no money problems with Saba. I got 3 quality armies with several elephants and even 300 upkeep ballistas. upgrading the settlements early on is a must and dignitaries as well! having a general with -x% upkeep is also nice.

[Sanatyr]

Its not much, but if you park a general next to a settlement then switch to Patrol Region, you can 'move' him into the settlement and get the benefits of Garrison stance on top of that--this includes the reduced upkeep from both stances, plus the food and public order to help counter the penalties.

Also DeI 0.9 was tuned to Very Hard campaign difficulty, DeI 1.0 should really be played on Hard.

[Grizwald714]

That's why you build up your economy and also raise taxes above normal for a few turns if needed when at war and then after conquest disband unneeded troops. I now I have 3 full legions though and I am making around 3,000 a turn with only 3 built up provinces.

[loony]

simple:
blitzkrieg a province
loot
disband 1/2 army
wait 2 turns
fight rebels
wait 5 turns
recruit units (or simply merc up)
blitzkrieg

[Daergar]

Rome on normal/hard, tried twice.

For me, blitzing is utterly pointless. I disband every regular unit and meticulously go over the generals; decide on turn one which will be your first one and two generals. Managing and balancing your senate influence is crucial, the negative values if you become too powerful are crippling, so you can't go balls to the wall gung-ho with your faction leader.

First step is to halt the negative order in southern Italy, which is mostly due to it being non-romanized. Influence boosting generals (in patrol region stance) with suitable retainers, upgrade to a temple of Jupiter when possible.

Second step is simply to turtle. I normally send my first admiral northwest to Massilia, get a trade agreement, disband. Recruit them again in Brundisium and send them either toward Egypt or eastward, getting Nap's and trade agreements. This phase is ably named Rome Total Trade n' Build. Boost Italy, focusing on anything positive. At some point, disband the poor admiral yet again and send him toward Britain for more trade agreements.

I also become chummy with Carthage, but this depends largely on whether or not they get kicked out of Sicily.

Third step is up to you. I always, without fail, wipe out the Veneti and grab the glassware production since it boosts trade in a massive way.

This campaign I have been careful to not make any agreements with anyone in Iberia, going on a spanish rampage with three legions (and a very, very low income but a decent stockpile).

Random tips; patrol stance is important, a base plus four to public order can stem a lot of bad blood.

Romanizing provinces is key to success, a lot of micro-management is needed to min-max but I find it vital. I research in a beeline to governors and get two out as soon as possible. The one best suited for it heads to southern Italy and helps purging it from Punic and Hellenic influences. One ended up north to do the same, but focus at least one of them on economics and try to keep them near Rome for the massive tax boosts.

Avoid ctds at the moment by wiping out spawned rebel armies as soon as you spot them.

tl;dr Turtle, turtle, turtle. Overextending and going to war before your economy and territories are stable is utterly pointless.

[Linke]

Do like History and dont have a standing army untill you can support one, or keep a small army in peace.
If your Invaded you can still get a full stack in on turn in your capital if you already have some units.

[Hetzen]

I'm late to the party and realize that DEI is already too entrenched in its current economic model, but I wanted to reference what I consider the best Total War mod ever done: Imperial Splendour II for Empire. Very similar to DEI it focused on historical accuracy and faction diversity along with a slight slowing of battle.

In ISII any particular unit would have reasonable upkeep, but high initial cost. To add to this the minimum army value before a unit was disbanded was significantly increased. The last factor is that recruitment slots were cut hard and recruitment times were increased based generally on the eliteness of the unit.

All this combined created significant planning required as raising anything but a levie army took many turns, and individual armies were more critical due to this investment without upkeep essentially providing a secondary armor limiter. In DEI armies recruit fast, unit losses are few and don't matter much, hell its usually going to be disbanded regardless. The increased chance for units to be disbanded also put more emphasis on picking up filler from local AOR recruitment, which ISII also had.

With less upkeep focus we can probably also put more emphasis on individual region economies as we could cut down on the base income, which I feel is a charity just to make the upkeep system work for smaller factions.

This would most likely allow for a couple more armies in mid to late game, but since building costs were also increased the player was forced to choose between raising the raw cash to form an army or upgrade buildings in developing areas.

As I said, I enjoy DEI, but I had to plug what I consider to be one of the best mod economy/recruitment models for gameplay and strategic thinking. I can live with my base income charity and army limiter. Would just be nice to have storied armies instead of disbanding them after each use.

[FlashHeart07]

Sack and then Loot = A ton of gold. Use this to build up provinces quickly to increase income. Easy and useable no matter the difficulty

[BooBooLovesAll]

Appreciate everyone's help.

Started a new game, and have a steady income of 2kish, with two legions with a little over half full.

[UsulDaNeriak]

It is a long story. Just a quickie:

- establish a Sacred Grove in every province for PO and faster cultural conversion
- also an amphitheatre in every capital. Expand it later to Gladiator School, which is mostly needed.
- in military recruitment centers, whre I can't waste a slot for a temple but Mars, e.g Italia if roman, I even go for a Circus longterm