Missile killrates too high?

[Hyzoran]

As the title says, I believe missile units in general need some slight tweaking..

Version 1.01 DEI, no submods.

At the end of every battle, melee units usually have 1/5 the amount of kills on average compared to missile units, due to the extremely slow frontal combat of melee units, and even flanking strikes are not comparable in lethality rates as missile attacks. In my opinion, all non-siege missle units need a reduction in projectile accuracy, and archers a small reduction in damage.

The problem with the current situation is that it feels really inconsistent to me, if you feel otherwise or if this is already being addressed please discuss

[tybor87]

It is quite opposite in my current Roman campaign regarding leves and slingers. Maybe you are using more powerful missile units or always flank with them and shoot in the enemy's back;p. In normal combat formation my early hastati/principes/triarii and ballistae kills around 150, cav around 500 and missiles around 75.

[Kerzaks]

remember that they moved much of the armor to shields, so flanking and back shots from projectiles are much much stronger, it works the same way if u flank with ur melee infantries as well, just not as quickly as projectiles do.

[razorts]

Missiles kills fast only when shooting at the backs or unarmored targets, try shooting hoplites with archers or slingers, you will run out of ammo faster, greek armies is a pain to deal with as Parthia >_<

[BroskiDerpman]

I would disagree any unit with decent shields and armor can resist missiles from the front very well. The Romans also have testudo which makes them invincible from any kind of bow, sling, or javelin fire.

[FaceDancer]

I think, like many others here, that killrates are OK. Bowmen are pretty useful, especialy in early game. They are good against skirmishers, low armored targets which they kill very fast. On the other hand I tried to shoot armenian infantry general, and after few volleys from multiple squads he lost about 10 men.

[razorts]

I wonder if it would be possible to state shield defense value against missiles somewhere in unit description somewhere? It is one of the main defensive stats or does it share from melee defense 'Shield'

[Linke]

Playing with low tier phalangites is hard if the enemy has bowmen, if you Wait for them to use their ammo you will take large casualties, if you advance in Pike phalanx to fix the enemy you will take larger casualties.

[razorts]

Hoplites to soak the damage and pretty much any cavalry help

[spartanbits]

I dont know. The killrates are very strange sometimes. Sometimes missiles destroy units and other times they might as well be shooting pebbles. Also fighting greek factions as another greek faction is horrible because the hoplites get even and nobody dies for sometimes up to 3 minutes even if I flank them and sandwich the units they are still even and the battle moves nowhere. Dresden said that he decreased the performance of cavalry to make infantry flanking more important and decrease hammer and anvil tactics but honestly hammer and anvil seems to be the ONLY way to get the ball rolling sometimes. IDK that's just my two cents.

[Zanze]

I dont know. The killrates are very strange sometimes. Sometimes missiles destroy units and other times they might as well be shooting pebbles. Also fighting greek factions as another greek faction is horrible because the hoplites get even and nobody dies for sometimes up to 3 minutes even if I flank them and sandwich the units they are still even and the battle moves nowhere. Dresden said that he decreased the performance of cavalry to make infantry flanking more important and decrease hammer and anvil tactics but honestly hammer and anvil seems to be the ONLY way to get the ball rolling sometimes. IDK that's just my two cents.

Rather than sandwich with hoplites line up some missile units behind their lines. Peltasts especially are great if you want to quickly down a ton of units, slingers/archers if you want a more gradual approach. Once they are weakened you can finally charge from behind with cavalry or shock infantry.

[PonySlaystation]

Rather than sandwich with hoplites line up some missile units behind their lines. Peltasts especially are great if you want to quickly down a ton of units, slingers/archers if you want a more gradual approach. Once they are weakened you can finally charge from behind with cavalry or shock infantry.

my friendly fire is always quite high with peltasts/jav levies i stopped using them on engaged units even when shooting from behind or the side they inflict nearly as much casualties on my men as on the enemy. dont know how to use them properly right now tbh.

[Petar]

my friendly fire is always quite high with peltasts/jav levies i stopped using them on engaged units even when shooting from behind or the side they inflict nearly as much casualties on my men as on the enemy. dont know how to use them properly right now tbh.

Seems like there is much missile scattering. The cone which javelins, for example, form with their trajectories is too wide and a part of them fly overhead the targeted unit, especially if they're shot from close distance. Same problem occurred in some of the older DeI versions. I'll try adjusting trajectories to see if friendly fire can be contained.

['Gunny]

The way I designed the missile system that is currently used is that missiles will be effective, but over time. It is scaled to the combat time, so you may flank and be firing missiles and feel like they are shooting marbles, but the units receiving fire will be receiving fatigue and morale maluses. Over time, as the missiles wear down the enmy units, they ill begin to inflict increasing levels of damage, due to the larger amount of ammo the missiles carry. So if you can keep them in one area, firing constantly, they will do more damage over a long period of time, and less damage over a short period of time.

[Ygraine]

Missiles are perfect in the wip-fix that Dresden posted! You kill levies quite easily - but try to shoot on armoured targets and you'll see how long it takes to kill even one group with several of yours.
Also correct me if I'm wrong - but doesn't friendly fire count as kills? Ever since 1.0 I get a lot more friendly fire due to the arc archers shoot in now.

[cyox]

Missiles are perfect in the wip-fix that Dresden posted! You kill levies quite easily - but try to shoot on armoured targets and you'll see how long it takes to kill even one group with several of yours.
Also correct me if I'm wrong - but doesn't friendly fire count as kills? Ever since 1.0 I get a lot more friendly fire due to the arc archers shoot in now.

agreed they feel like they're in a really good spot atm. they shred lighter units as they should and don't completely dominate the much heavier armored units.

[itsM]

missile units are perfect imo, the kill rate of the infantry is to low

[jazebiker]

Missile damage and kill rates are pretty much perfect right now, IMO. They're not OP by any means, but foot archers are actually useful in battles again.

[W4lt3r]

Has any of you tried Scorpios yet?
12 of them in a group with Rpm of 3 along with the high ammunition capacity makes them pretty great on just reducing the enemy elite unit numbers at the start of battle.

Not even talking about siege engagements against towns without walls. Infantry just holds them in place and the scorpios let 'em rip.

[KAM 2150]

I am going to test one idea from Alexander Lange, which should help with fireing arc without causing a bug from current and 0.96 versions of DeI