Economic balance issue...

[Matmannen]

It just came to my attantion that there is a strange diffrence between in cost and stats between triarii and pedites extraordinarii. I am going to compare the two units:

Triarii
Melee attack: 22
Melee defence 88
Charge bonus: 40
Weapon damage: 20
Armour: 70
Base Morale: 81
Bonus vs Large: 45
Health: 50

The unit has access to: Hollow square, hoplite phalanx, poor stamina, disciplined, encourage, formation attack and hide (forest).

Recruitment cost: 946
Upkeep: 237

Pedites Extraordinarii

Melee attack: 24
Melee defence: 88
Charge bonus: 37
Weapon Damage: 18
Armour: 70
Base Morale: 75
Bonus vs Large: 40
Health: 55

The unit has access to: Hollow square, hoplite phalanx, poor stamina, disciplined, encourage, formation attack and hide (forest).

Recruitment cost: 978
Upkeep: 245

The the triarii have 3 higher charge bonus, 2 higher weapon damage, 6 higher base morale, five higher bonus vs large. The pedites extraordinarii have 2 higher attack, and 5 higher health. I am fairly certain the Triarii are the better unit (though throwing them at each other would be a nigtmare of a drawn out melee brawl), since they are real romans and not just socii. But the pedites cost 22 more to recruit and 8 more in upkeep. This just seems odd to me, perhaps the pedites truly are the better unit, but, I am asking is this just a simple mistake where the price fr the units accidentally got swapped, or is this intentional. If so I would be curious to know why...

Anyway, 1.0 version rocks, good on you gods among modders

[KAM 2150]

Damn I need to nerf morale on those monster, both have it to damn high

Overal, when two units have the same armour, one with the higher melee attack will win.

Also Pedites Extraordinarii are elite Italian infantry, like literary you won't find anyone more deadly in combat then them

[Rafkos]

All the costs are based on script calculations, there's no way it is a typo or something. I think the multiplier for melee attack is simply higher (because it's one of the most important values) than multipliers of other stats and so the upkeep is higher too. The best way to check it would be playing a custom battle

[Krixux]

Hm hm, imho cost/upkeep should not be strictly related with the actual quality of units.
Consider this:
Triarii:
highly motivated, patriotic, ready to to fight to the last man.
they live in a "patriarchal" society, more simple and un-corrupted, thus although expensive give greatest performance.
Pedites extraordinary.
still motivated, not so patriotic, fight almost to the last man.
they live in a more complex society, more prone to corruption, and are an expensive unit with an "average" great performance.

???

PS: I am sure that the Legions of Marius Reforms were less expesive than Diocletian troops for instance, while performing similar on the battle field...
Just a thought

[KAM 2150]

For gameplay purpose, stat based costs are the most fair, both for AI, player and MP campaigns. In future there will propably be bigger difference between elites and rest of the units, but that is muchb bigger task, although once I finish it, with help of Rafkos and his ideas, it is possible to change ALL costs in few minutes

This is also done to keep mid-late game more interesting, since previously it was super easy, but now units get more and more expensive with players progress.

[Matmannen]

For gameplay purpose, stat based costs are the most fair, both for AI, player and MP campaigns. In future there will propably be bigger difference between elites and rest of the units, but that is muchb bigger task, although once I finish it, with help of Rafkos and his ideas, it is possible to change ALL costs in few minutes

This is also done to keep mid-late game more interesting, since previously it was super easy, but now units get more and more expensive with players progress.

That I discovered when I started upgrading my Camillian units to Polybian, what happened with all my income?

I really like the high prices though, it really makes you think, will I really use that horse unit or not... Net time I will play I am for example going to disband some Triarii cohorts, they have killer stats, but I don't use them (they usually get 0 kills during battles) so their just a burden on my economy...

[KAM 2150]

Glad to hear that buddy I remember that you were already posting here for a long time when I was too just a fan of this mod

What I like about this economy is how you view elite units, they are now not a goal to achieve in your army, but rather a luxury. Like having a Lamborghini, sure it looks nice and lets you get somwhere faster, but if your goal is just to get from place A to B, it is not necessary and can be achieved with much cheaper car ;D

[meerkatology]

just came back and glad to see the 1.0 unit balancing is SO much improved now. We are looking more and more like roma surrectum now^^, maybe it'll only be 1 more year for everything to really get polished and become legend status.

Comment on the OP's question also, the empire focused on different types of units during different reforms, early triarii are from the spear/greek-like fighting style during the camillan era, and likely spear units were generally more widely trained/available and easy to obtain. after polybian romans mostly went to gladius and spear units are much more rare so prehaps their production/maintenance isnt as "efficient".

also, one of the main things the reforms did for rome wasn't unit quality but unit availibility, in roma surrectum, polybian legions were only available to train in italia and only after marian reforms can you train legions outside of your starting area, this severely limited your ability to expand to distant areas prior to marian reforms, which was exactly how went down in history. hopefully one day this will be implemented in DEI too

[Matmannen]

just came back and glad to see the 1.0 unit balancing is SO much improved now. We are looking more and more like roma surrectum now^^, maybe it'll only be 1 more year for everything to really get polished and become legend status.

Comment on the OP's question also, the empire focused on different types of units during different reforms, early triarii are from the spear/greek-like fighting style during the camillan era, and likely spear units were generally more widely trained/available and easy to obtain. after polybian romans mostly went to gladius and spear units are much more rare so prehaps their production/maintenance isnt as "efficient".

also, one of the main things the reforms did for rome wasn't unit quality but unit availibility, in roma surrectum, polybian legions were only available to train in italia and only after marian reforms can you train legions outside of your starting area, this severely limited your ability to expand to distant areas prior to marian reforms, which was exactly how went down in history. hopefully one day this will be implemented in DEI too

Actually the costs are decided through a stat based script, so the higher the stats the higher the cost. Some stats are worth more, and melee attack is one of those, therefore since Pedites Extraordinarii have highe attack they have a higher cost, despite having other stats that are lower...

[KAM 2150]

Just an example of how melee attack value works. If you compare melee attack with melee defence, 20 melee attack is worth more then 80 melee defence. I need to change stats of pedites and triarii anyway, since I am 100% sure that their morale was not to high, so maybe during one of zilions patches during developing, something went back to previous values.

[Matmannen]

Just an example of how melee attack value works. If you compare melee attack with melee defence, 20 melee attack is worth more then 80 melee defence. I need to change stats of pedites and triarii anyway, since I am 100% sure that their morale was not to high, so maybe during one of zilions patches during developing, something went back to previous values.

Yeah tje morale is probibly to high, actually ealry Triarii have higher morale then late Triarii. This could be intentional, but I so no reason why it should be...