Upkeep Early Roman Legions

[bruttus]

I just played your mod, and I wonder if it is normal, for the Roman troops to have such a high upkeep.
You can't barely have 1 compleet legion, its a bit difficult to hold your borders if you are at war, and you can only pay for 1 compleet legion.
Then I noticed the upkeep.
For a game that says that it is giving an historical feeling, Then I think you should open your books for the Roman faction.
If I'm not wrong, in that era, the people of Rome, had to have a certain amount of money to join the ranks of a legion, but in this game, you are being punished to buy an unit, that high is the upkeep.
More then 200 gold for 1 unit of Camilan Hastati, more then 200 gold for an unit of Camilan Princepe's and 250 gold for 1 unit of Triarii and 300 gold for 1 unit of Equites.

Is a bit crazy, becouse for example, I receive 4000 gold/turn, after making 1 compleet legion, it was reduced to 500 gold/turn ( I use 4 has., 4 princ., 3 Triarii, 1 Equit and the general, and with that, some aux).

I know that I'm gonna get allot of hate on this, but I have said mine thoughts about this

[FlashHeart07]

More than 200? In my game they only cost 160. I can field 1,5 armies with only the starting cities. This mod is ment to be challenging and make the player think more about his decisions. If you find the income too low you gotta change your strategy or lower the difficulty

[Brutus!]

More than 200? In my game they only cost 160. I can field 1,5 armies with only the starting cities. This mod is ment to be challenging and make the player think more about his decisions. If you find the income too low you gotta change your strategy or lower the difficulty

How? I have a similar situation in my campaign and if I don't set all of my armies to patrol region, I'm racking up debts. I'll go ahead and post my armies and I suspect I'll get a bunch of "d0n't build so much cav u scrub" responses in return but honestly I'm already getting war declared on me by the Celtic tribes and suebi(wasn't this one supposed to be fixed?) to the north, and as soon as I move my armies out of the south to deal with that the Greeks think I have no armies now and declare war too, honestly I like that the game is making it so you have to be careful about your finances but I should be able to afford armies to defend both my north and south at the start of the game!
http://imgur.com/bfyQYyb,5ctrsBi,gV2GnCp,9FY0ngh#3

[KAM 2150]

Welcome to the world of planning and thikning long term. It is all manageable. Also unit cost is changed per difficulty, so starting on VH might give you a lot higher cost/upkeep then normal.

Build up your economy, plan ahead, never start a war unless you are certain you can win it.

[Blasphemer.]

Yeah I started on VH and now I regret it. All of my income is going to my one and only army. I have to wait 5-6 turns to afford a building upgrade and I can not disband my army because of my enemies.

[stevehoos]

Welcome to the world of planning and thikning long term. It is all manageable. Also unit cost is changed per difficulty, so starting on VH might give you a lot higher cost/upkeep then normal.

Build up your economy, plan ahead, never start a war unless you are certain you can win it.

[SandraDevilGirl]

Welcome to the world of .....

Haha, I love these answers! I love the new changes, it makes the game so much more challenging! If people are not happy with the game not being a steam-roll, play vanilla Rome2

[KAM 2150]

Propably the most accurate thing to say on the subject is that Rome wasn't built in a day

[Krixux]

Propably the most accurate thing to say on the subject is that Rome wasn't built in a day

The Gods have spoken ! ! !
(well said Kam , well said indeed, plus rep

[PEDROASSASSINO]

It must be another mod or a sub-mod that's conflicting with DEI. I was having the same issue and solved it by disabling the "reduced movement points sub-mod".

[Ygraine]

It must be another mod or a sub-mod that's conflicting with DEI. I was having the same issue and solved it by disabling the "reduced movement points sub-mod".

It should be fixed now, the author updated to 1.0 today.

[bruttus]

True, Rome wasn't build in 1 day, but at that time Rome had 8 legions for defending that area.
So what use is it, you can't form a compleet legion in that era, and when you finaly can build a secon legion, youre in debts
I would have agreed more, if the upkeep wasn't high in the beginning was that high ( for the legions during the late republic, I would find it normal to pay a high upkeep), you could have atleast 2 full legions ready.
That was the strenght of Rome in the camillan era, on you pay what 700 gold for 1 Roman unit (900 gold for 1 triarrii) and a high upkeep, and the worst part is, that they aren't worth it on the battlefield
They are way to weak to have a high buyprice and an high upkeep
In mine opinion is that in this mod, youre just simply screwed to play with the Roman Faction.

And no, I have try a new game, but the upkeep is still the same

[KAM 2150]

So try lower difficulty. Difficulty levels in this mod really mean what they are called. If you would be able to field 8 legions from start, you would conquer everything 1/2 of Europe in 50 turns and this could be only countered by AI sending stack spams on you.

Slow down buddy, pick your difficulty level and plan your moves.


EDIT: Hastati upkeep on normal is 166, so it is super easy to have good troops.

[FlashHeart07]

All players have their opinions but I must agree with KAM on this one. Though the upkeep might seem high it is not unplayable. Even the AI is not fielding those massive elite armies they did before. Lower your difficulty and try again. This mod is not impossible and honestly, people complaining about the difficulty and are playing anything above Normal (dont know what difficulty you are playing though) cannot really complain or suggest anything before they have played N/N

[UsulDaNeriak]

I started a new roman campaign with 1.0 and as usual on VH, plus H for the battlefield. Oh man, that was a pain in the butt. I am pretty experienced with Rome 2 and DeIs economy. But VH was not, what I call fun. It is manageable, but takes a lot of turns for a small step forward. However I welcome the increased difficulty of DeI very much. Difficulty should have a meaning! I will try a campaign on VH anytime later again.

So I reduced to H/H which is challenging enough for me.

BTW, lowering the upkeep cost would not lead to more historical accuracy. The roman recruitment system (at least pre-Marius), as the system of most other nations in ancient times, was fully different to what is implemented in this game. Well, its still a game, and for a good game you need compromises.

[Alexandre Lange]

I like high recruitment/upkeep costs. The better part of the game, from my perspective, are the beginning moves, the first choices and little skirmishes/difficulties that comes with it. It's all about manage resources (including units), wise use of what you have to make profit and get bigger. The game loses my interest when all battles are 40x40. The costs DeI use make that first stage of the game last longer. For me, its is perfect. At least for beginning, brake the full stacks mindset: consider to make smaller armies to be able to expand and defend your borders properly. The AI will take more time to build full stacks too. And even when it have it, you don't need a full stack to beat an AI full stack: you are the smart side of the battle.

[FlashHeart07]

You still havent posted what difficulty you are playing at something that might explain alot. Besides, not all campaigns are alike. In some you might experience a slow expanding Suebi tribe and in others they might be super aggressive.

[KAM 2150]

Yes, now campaign difficulty is a REAL game changer, you can play Egypt or Rome on hard, but for example minor nations that are already in description listed as hard, might need normal or even easy campaign.

[Canterbury]

Is there such a thing as an historical starting position submod for DEI, or for any RomeII mod? As in every faction gets the sort of armies, navies, tech and infrastructure they had in 272BC?

I don't have a lot of time to play the game, and don't really like the fifty turns or so of buildup required to get to a reasonable level of development. I play on H/H, have done the three hours groundwork for a Rome campaign. It hasn't been hard but it has been dull. I have next to nothing, they have next to nothing, so not a lot's happening. It's a real grind. I won't do that again for another campaign. I don't have the time or the patience.

It's more than that though. I don't enjoy playing with unrealistic armies, as in I have to wait eight or ten turns or something before I can recruit Principes/Triarii/Equites, which I then can't afford in balanced numbers for another ten-twenty turns. I don't enjoy fighting AI factions with second and third rate troops. It's no challenge. I want to have and to face siege towers and rams and all that good stuff from the start. I want to cower in fear as the huge greek/carthaginian navies cruise past Italy and I'm left with my pathetic little paddle ships, [which was historically realistic], not have them all gone by the time I've got round to fighting them, replaced by some balkan/african tribe that doesnlt have a clue how to build decent ships.

So does anyone have a mod i can use? I'd love to play all the good stuff that's in the game, both with and against, but now, not in ten playing hours time. And i really don't want to start all over again from year zero if I happen to want to start another campaign with a different faction.

To be honest, I agree with the OP, though I would make the point that if DEI want to boost AI performance at higher difficulty levels they should concentrate more on giving their factions more/better units, buildings and tech rather than strangling the player. Much more constructive and much less of a tease.

[DakkaDon]

I don't mean to give an overly simple answer, but play Imperator Augustus! There you get to take control of matured empires with lategame units. Perfect if you're looking to jump right into the mid/lategame experience, but still have a lot of expansion and challenges.