The cyrenaican problem

[pirro]

When I saw that Cyrenaica was back in your mod, I was really happy, but then I saw that they start at war with Ptolemy. Why? Why are you making the same mistake CA did?

Magas (a half macedonian noble, if not completly macedonian) declared himself king of Cyrenaica and invaded Egypt allied with Antiochus, but the three kingdoms signed the peace by 272 a. C.

At least I hope that the names are proper greek/macedonian names and not random consonants and vowels trying to feel somewhat lybian.

I have a question too, before trying the newest version. Is the roster actual macedonian-like, or at least pure greek?

[Dresden]

For gameplay considerations to make Egypt's start more interesting and challenging, we had them start at war. It was a huge work just to get them back in and I did not read up on the history thoroughly. I only knew they were in rebellion.

They share a similiar roster/culture to Egypt.

[pirro]

For gameplay considerations to make Egypt's start more interesting and challenging, we had them start at war. It was a huge work just to get them back in and I did not read up on the history thoroughly. I only knew they were in rebellion.

They share a similiar roster/culture to Egypt.

Indeed, but they signed a peace and Magas (is he ingame?) ruled the kingdom quite peacefully until 250. His daughter married Ptolemy III (who was his kinsman)

[Linke]

Also 272 bc isnt over when the game starts, the game starts in spring and since only 1/4 of 272 bc has pased yet by then the likelihood the treaty being signed in the rest of 272 bc is higher.

[pirro]

Also 272 bc isnt over when the game starts, the game starts in spring and since only 1/4 of 272 bc has pased yet by then the likelihood the treaty being signed in the rest of 272 bc is higher.

Antiochus and Magas signed the peace at the same time (with the problems of its era) having one of them still at war with Egypt is 1) Unfair for Cyrenaica (in real life, they could protect themselves agaisnt Egypt without much trouble, in game, they are doomed), 2) unrealistic

[Kirsch27]

Antiochus and Magas signed the peace at the same time (with the problems of its era) having one of them still at war with Egypt is 1) Unfair for Cyrenaica (in real life, they could protect themselves agaisnt Egypt without much trouble, in game, they are doomed), 2) unrealistic

Yeah, well in the mod I get the impression Cyrenaica was added to keep Egypt from steamrolling AI Carthage EVERY SINGLE GAME before they can deal with the Iberians/Romans.
This isn't Europa Barbarorum, the historical accuracy/emphasis IS lacking comparatively, but it is the best out there for Rome 2 right now, by miles upon miles. EB had/has quite a lot of actual historians/professors/doctoral candidates working on their mod for years and years, even they manage to muck something up occasionally!

I would agree however, Cyrenaica should not start at war for gameplay as well as historical reasons. If we are being technical on the whole "who should be where at EXACTLY the start of 272 B.C. , Taras/Tarentum should be in place of Brundisium/Brindisi and should be owned by Pyrrhus. But for gameplay reasons we skip ahead to late 272 B.C. when the treaty was already signed and he left. For the same reason, they did not start the Seleucids at war with Ptolemies. They should, logically, have Cyrenaica at peace if Antiochos signed the treaty already.

Historical accuracy aside, it would be better for gameplay to keep them at peace to start. The real purpose of Cyrenaica is to be a buffer between Carthage/Ptolemaic Egypt. If Egypt starts at war with Cyrenaica but NOT the Seleucids, it can steamroll through the buffer state before anyone can really stop them, and the balance of power is once again in favor of Egypt taking over all of northern Africa.
Keeping them at peace to start with at least neutral relations will help keep Egypt from eating them immediately every game, helping Carthage remain a reliable competitor for the Western Med.

Cyrenaica's unit roster should indeed be greek/macedonian in nature, with local Libyan levies to add to the mix. Javelinmen, horse javelineers, little bush elephants, these would all be acceptable auxiliaries with a core of macedonian phalanx and greek style troops.
I have not played them yet but it sounds as if that's about what they did, giving them some of Egypt's choices. Just so long as there aren't any "native egyptian" troops without conquering Egypt proper, everything seems about right.

I would disagree with your statement that Cyrenaica is ALWAYS doomed if it goes to war with the Ptolemies, however. There are many times when a small state can concentrate their forces more effectively on the defensive, winning a few major victories before pushing into the enemies' homeland which is now either completely defenseless or in the process of recruiting new armies depending on finances. Garrison armies perform really poorly in AI vs AI/autoresolved battles so losing the invasion force is a major blow to their ability to hang on to power.
If Egypt sends 1-2 stacks against Cyrene, 1 Cyrenaican stack and the garrison could destroy them and chase them back to Egypt!

[pirro]

Yeah, well in the mod I get the impression Cyrenaica was added to keep Egypt from steamrolling AI Carthage EVERY SINGLE GAME before they can deal with the Iberians/Romans.
This isn't Europa Barbarorum, the historical accuracy/emphasis IS lacking comparatively, but it is the best out there for Rome 2 right now, by miles upon miles. EB had/has quite a lot of actual historians/professors/doctoral candidates working on their mod for years and years, even they manage to muck something up occasionally!

I would agree however, Cyrenaica should not start at war for gameplay as well as historical reasons. If we are being technical on the whole "who should be where at EXACTLY the start of 272 B.C. , Taras/Tarentum should be in place of Brundisium/Brindisi and should be owned by Pyrrhus. But for gameplay reasons we skip ahead to late 272 B.C. when the treaty was already signed and he left. For the same reason, they did not start the Seleucids at war with Ptolemies. They should, logically, have Cyrenaica at peace if Antiochos signed the treaty already.

Historical accuracy aside, it would be better for gameplay to keep them at peace to start. The real purpose of Cyrenaica is to be a buffer between Carthage/Ptolemaic Egypt. If Egypt starts at war with Cyrenaica but NOT the Seleucids, it can steamroll through the buffer state before anyone can really stop them, and the balance of power is once again in favor of Egypt taking over all of northern Africa.
Keeping them at peace to start with at least neutral relations will help keep Egypt from eating them immediately every game, helping Carthage remain a reliable competitor for the Western Med.

Cyrenaica's unit roster should indeed be greek/macedonian in nature, with local Libyan levies to add to the mix. Javelinmen, horse javelineers, little bush elephants, these would all be acceptable auxiliaries with a core of macedonian phalanx and greek style troops.
I have not played them yet but it sounds as if that's about what they did, giving them some of Egypt's choices. Just so long as there aren't any "native egyptian" troops without conquering Egypt proper, everything seems about right.

I would disagree with your statement that Cyrenaica is ALWAYS doomed if it goes to war with the Ptolemies, however. There are many times when a small state can concentrate their forces more effectively on the defensive, winning a few major victories before pushing into the enemies' homeland which is now either completely defenseless or in the process of recruiting new armies depending on finances. Garrison armies perform really poorly in AI vs AI/autoresolved battles so losing the invasion force is a major blow to their ability to hang on to power.
If Egypt sends 1-2 stacks against Cyrene, 1 Cyrenaican stack and the garrison could destroy them and chase them back to Egypt!

I agree with everything you have said

[geala]

I would also prefer them at peace. It would make it easier for Kyrene to build up when both are AI. Playing as Ptolemaioi I had a nasty surprise however when the Nasamones invaded me. I thought they would dig themselves in but not so. I had to make a hasty peace treaty to avoid loosing my region. Of course they will suffer for this later on. Pharao always wins, to cite an old Egyptian phrase.

[ShadowMassa]

Most of Cyrenaica leadership/Commanders in game are Aethiopian. My battles with Cyrenaica was composed of Aethiopian majority in terms units, and a smaller segment of Egyptians, Libyans and Greek militias.