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  1. #1
    The Holy Pilgrim's Avatar In Memory of Blackomur
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    Default Re: Version 1.6 Beta Test Bug Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyraels View Post
    Yeah but it's odd that it could take only 1 minute for Pilgrim and around 10 for me for example...seems to be the same problem for Captain Melon.

    I was wondering if someone who got a working version , a good internet connexion and so..could upload it already installed , just zipped ? maybe it could solve problem for those who tried everything with the mod...
    I'll try to upload my folder at some point. I'll be sure to send you and Captain Melon the folder to see if that fixes anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Baal View Post
    Ok, the "random" crashes continue. Now following AI movements and all. I'm starting to suspect is fault of the AI attacking other people settlements which I cannot see. I'll have to use the console to remove the fog of war, but then I would be reporting other factions bugs and not Dwarven ones.

    EDIT: I did that and found out a crash caused on Ostland turn, when trying to attack/move near a beastmen army.
    A picture on the spoiler:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    As for the log, it finish with this:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Code:
    08:16:25.834 [game.script.trigger] [trace] Trigger <0403> fired
    08:16:33.654 [data.transgression] [info] Applied transgression TC_BATTLE_ENGAGEMENT from transgressor faction 1514245C against faction 151429C8
    08:16:33.674 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/globallighting/afternoon_blizzard.lighting
    08:16:33.674 [system.io] [trace] file open,,data/globallighting/afternoon_blizzard.lighting,,not found
    08:16:33.675 [system.io] [trace] pack open,packs/localized.pack,data/globallighting/afternoon_blizzard.lighting,,not found
    08:16:33.675 [system.io] [trace] pack open,packs/data_0.pack,data/globallighting/afternoon_blizzard.lighting,191
    08:16:33.675 [system.io] [info] open:   found data/globallighting/afternoon_blizzard.lighting (from: packs/data_0.pack)
    08:16:33.675 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/globallighting/env_maps/environment_morning_storm_snow.texture
    08:16:33.675 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/globallighting/env_maps/environment_morning_storm_snow.texture
    08:16:33.675 [system.io] [trace] pack close,,data/globallighting/afternoon_blizzard.lighting,,,-191
    08:16:33.676 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/globallighting/afternoon_blizzard.lighting
    08:16:33.676 [system.io] [trace] file open,,data/globallighting/afternoon_blizzard.lighting,,not found
    08:16:33.676 [system.io] [trace] pack open,packs/localized.pack,data/globallighting/afternoon_blizzard.lighting,,not found
    08:16:33.676 [system.io] [trace] pack open,packs/data_0.pack,data/globallighting/afternoon_blizzard.lighting,191
    08:16:33.676 [system.io] [info] open:   found data/globallighting/afternoon_blizzard.lighting (from: packs/data_0.pack)
    08:16:33.676 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/globallighting/env_maps/environment_morning_storm_snow.texture
    08:16:33.676 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/globallighting/env_maps/environment_morning_storm_snow.texture
    08:16:33.676 [system.io] [trace] pack close,,data/globallighting/afternoon_blizzard.lighting,,,-191
    08:16:33.676 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/globallighting/afternoon_blizzard.lighting
    08:16:33.677 [system.io] [trace] file open,,data/globallighting/afternoon_blizzard.lighting,,not found
    08:16:33.677 [system.io] [trace] pack open,packs/localized.pack,data/globallighting/afternoon_blizzard.lighting,,not found
    08:16:33.677 [system.io] [trace] pack open,packs/data_0.pack,data/globallighting/afternoon_blizzard.lighting,191
    08:16:33.677 [system.io] [info] open:   found data/globallighting/afternoon_blizzard.lighting (from: packs/data_0.pack)
    08:16:33.677 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/globallighting/env_maps/environment_morning_storm_snow.texture
    08:16:33.677 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/globallighting/env_maps/environment_morning_storm_snow.texture
    08:16:33.677 [system.io] [trace] pack close,,data/globallighting/afternoon_blizzard.lighting,,,-191
    08:16:33.678 [data.transgression] [info] Applied transgression TC_UNDECLARED_ATTACK from transgressor faction 1514245C against faction 151429C8
    08:16:33.692 [system.rpt] [error] Medieval 2: Total War encountered an unspecified error and will now exit.


    The bold line has caught my attention because it has been appearing in every crash of this nature so far on the campaign.

    SECOND EDIT: Now on Norland turn, clearly attacking a Beastmen army. I think I'm onto something with them.
    A picture on the spoiler:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    As for the log, again it finish with this:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Code:
    09:36:13.460 [game.script.trigger] [trace] Trigger <0404> fired
    09:36:18.770 [data.transgression] [info] Applied transgression TC_BATTLE_ENGAGEMENT from transgressor faction 1506AF0E against faction 150429C8
    09:36:18.773 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/globallighting/sunrise_cloudy_winter.lighting
    09:36:18.773 [system.io] [trace] file open,,data/globallighting/sunrise_cloudy_winter.lighting,,not found
    09:36:18.773 [system.io] [trace] pack open,packs/localized.pack,data/globallighting/sunrise_cloudy_winter.lighting,,not found
    09:36:18.773 [system.io] [trace] pack open,packs/data_0.pack,data/globallighting/sunrise_cloudy_winter.lighting,194
    09:36:18.773 [system.io] [info] open:   found data/globallighting/sunrise_cloudy_winter.lighting (from: packs/data_0.pack)
    09:36:18.774 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/globallighting/env_maps/environment_sunrise_cloudy_winter.texture
    09:36:18.774 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/globallighting/env_maps/environment_sunrise_cloudy_winter.texture
    09:36:18.774 [system.io] [trace] pack close,,data/globallighting/sunrise_cloudy_winter.lighting,,,-194
    09:36:18.775 [data.transgression] [info] Applied transgression TC_UNDECLARED_ATTACK from transgressor faction 1506AF0E against faction 150429C8
    09:36:18.922 [system.io] [trace] file open,,2E379580,4510507
    09:36:18.922 [system.io] [info] open:   found temp/campaign_battle.rpy (from: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Medieval II Total War)
    09:36:18.923 [system.rpt] [error] Medieval 2: Total War encountered an unspecified error and will now exit.


    See that the error in both logs are aginst faction "150429C8" which now I'm almost sure is beastman. Also of notice, I'm playing with size of units set as "huge". Why I'm mentioning this? Bear with me, is a little long history. Yesterday my AMD driver updated and installed something that fine-tuned games automatically, I tried it and fine-tuned Medieval 2 and it made the units small (most of them with only 50 soldiers). I started a campaign like that and what do you know? The crashes were few (if none). I'm going to try to play with small units again.
    I have a theory as to why this is happening, but let me test out a few things before I come to any conclusions.

  2. #2
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Version 1.6 Beta Test Bug Reports

    Tried to attack the beast men as chaos dwarves but couldn't. The game crashed on the Skaven turn and the log says:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Code:
    17:26:24.361 [game.script.exec] [trace] exec <add_money> at line 85345 in mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/world/maps/campaign/imperial_campaign/campaign_script.txt
    17:26:24.500 [data.transgression] [info] Applied transgression TC_INSTIGATE_SIEGE from transgressor faction 14A89D7A against faction 14A8AA30
    17:26:25.382 [data.transgression] [info] Applied transgression TC_BATTLE_ENGAGEMENT from transgressor faction 14A89D7A against faction 14A8AA30
    17:26:25.384 [system.io] [info] exists:   found mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/descr_hero_abilities.xml (from: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Medieval II Total War)
    17:26:25.384 [system.io] [info] exists:   found mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/descr_hero_abilities.xml (from: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Medieval II Total War)
    17:26:25.384 [system.io] [trace] file open,,174F3B40,59499
    17:26:25.384 [system.io] [info] open:   found mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/descr_hero_abilities.xml (from: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Medieval II Total War)
    17:26:25.395 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/globallighting/afternoon_light.lighting
    17:26:25.395 [system.io] [trace] file open,,data/globallighting/afternoon_light.lighting,,not found
    17:26:25.395 [system.io] [trace] pack open,packs/localized.pack,data/globallighting/afternoon_light.lighting,,not found
    17:26:25.396 [system.io] [trace] pack open,packs/data_0.pack,data/globallighting/afternoon_light.lighting,182
    17:26:25.396 [system.io] [info] open:   found data/globallighting/afternoon_light.lighting (from: packs/data_0.pack)
    17:26:25.396 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/globallighting/env_maps/environment_afternoon.texture
    17:26:25.396 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/globallighting/env_maps/environment_afternoon.texture
    17:26:25.396 [system.io] [trace] pack close,,data/globallighting/afternoon_light.lighting,,,-182
    17:26:25.397 [data.transgression] [info] Applied transgression TC_UNDECLARED_ATTACK from transgressor faction 14A89D7A against faction 14A8AA30
    17:26:25.570 [system.io] [trace] file open,,2E957DE0,4563084
    17:26:25.570 [system.io] [info] open:   found temp/campaign_battle.rpy (from: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Medieval II Total War)
    17:26:25.571 [system.rpt] [error] Medieval 2: Total War encountered an unspecified error and will now exit.
    PROUD TO BE A PESANT. And for the dimwitted, I know how to spell peasant. <== This blue things are links, you click them and magical things (like not ending up like a fool) happens.
    Visit my utterly wall of doom here.
    Do you wanna play SS 6.4 and take your time while at it? Play with my 12 turns per year here.
    Y también quieres jugar Stainless Steel 100% en español? Mira por aca.

  3. #3
    The Holy Pilgrim's Avatar In Memory of Blackomur
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    Default Re: Version 1.6 Beta Test Bug Reports

    Try being a faction that is close to the Beastmen and attack them.

    I don't think anything will happen, but it's worth a shot.

    I just encountered a very similar crash. Playing as Reikland, one of my cities (Grunburg, I think it's called) was attacked by an Orc army on turn 2 and the game crashed.

    I loaded the save, and they didn't attack so I couldn't reproduce the error. I started a new campaign as Reikland, and again, on turn 2, the Orc army attacked the city. Oddly enough, the game did not crash. I thought that the crashes would be due to some diplomatic event message failure, but everything seemed to be fine with the events.

    I also thought that it could be that a strat map model wasn't being displayed when the Orcs or Beastmen attacked a city, but during my second attempt, both the Orcs and the Beastmen seiged some cities, and the game went along as normal.

    I'm at a loss as to what's happening here.

  4. #4
    Semisalis
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    Default Re: Version 1.6 Beta Test Bug Reports

    Holy Pilgrim

    i posted something "new" (somewhat obvious in fact ) in my thread about ctds

  5. #5

    Default Re: Version 1.6 Beta Test Bug Reports

    Well, If anyone is still following my story, I succesfully installed a working Gigantus version of 1.5.1 and then installed the 1.6 over it.

    AND MIRACULOUSLY, it works!

    Exept that everytime i try to pick a faction and start a campaign, i get the usual Sigmar preserve us popup and game crashes. Oh well, i guess you gotta take a small victory at least

  6. #6
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Version 1.6 Beta Test Bug Reports

    Again, playing as Reikland this time:
    Code:
    00:28:04.220 [game.script.trigger] [trace] Trigger <0403> fired
    00:28:04.487 [data.transgression] [info] Applied transgression TC_BATTLE_ENGAGEMENT from transgressor faction 1506AF0E against faction 150429C8
    00:28:04.493 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/globallighting/afternoon_winter_light.lighting
    00:28:04.493 [system.io] [trace] file open,,data/globallighting/afternoon_winter_light.lighting,,not found
    00:28:04.493 [system.io] [trace] pack open,packs/localized.pack,data/globallighting/afternoon_winter_light.lighting,,not found
    00:28:04.494 [system.io] [trace] pack open,packs/data_0.pack,data/globallighting/afternoon_winter_light.lighting,189
    00:28:04.494 [system.io] [info] open:   found data/globallighting/afternoon_winter_light.lighting (from: packs/data_0.pack)
    00:28:04.494 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/globallighting/env_maps/winter/environment_afternoon_winter.texture
    00:28:04.494 [system.io] [info] exists: missing data/globallighting/env_maps/winter/environment_afternoon_winter.texture
    00:28:04.494 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/globallighting/env_maps/environment_afternoon_winter.texture
    00:28:04.494 [system.io] [info] exists: missing mods/Call_of_Warhammer/data/globallighting/env_maps/environment_afternoon_winter.texture
    00:28:04.494 [system.io] [trace] pack close,,data/globallighting/afternoon_winter_light.lighting,,,-189
    00:28:04.495 [data.transgression] [info] Applied transgression TC_UNDECLARED_ATTACK from transgressor faction 1506AF0E against faction 150429C8
    00:28:04.651 [system.io] [trace] file open,,1877F1B0,4541912
    00:28:04.651 [system.io] [info] open:   found temp/campaign_battle.rpy (from: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\Medieval II Total War)
    00:28:04.651 [system.rpt] [error] Medieval 2: Total War encountered an unspecified error and will now exit.
    Thing is, I attacked (and destroyed, it was a really amazing battle, in fact it left the historical battle mark on the map) a beastman army with no issues.

    Again faction 150429C8 which I'm pretty sure by now that is the Beastmen, that's it, the crash triggers whenever an AI faction attacks the Beastmen. However certain factions as Middleland seems to be able to attack the beastmen without triggering the crash (I've see them using the toggle_fow cheat), so it would appear that is only certain AI factions the faulty ones.
    Last edited by Lord Baal; December 29, 2014 at 11:14 PM.
    PROUD TO BE A PESANT. And for the dimwitted, I know how to spell peasant. <== This blue things are links, you click them and magical things (like not ending up like a fool) happens.
    Visit my utterly wall of doom here.
    Do you wanna play SS 6.4 and take your time while at it? Play with my 12 turns per year here.
    Y también quieres jugar Stainless Steel 100% en español? Mira por aca.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Version 1.6 Beta Test Bug Reports

    Allright guys, I sort of give up. I tried all things that came to my mind including combining the mod folders of RoDG and CoW, basically to no avail, the result stays the same. I am gonna wait for a new beta-build to come out or if someone eventually shares their working mod folder, because i fear all these hard resets(starting the mod currently cause my computer to gradually slow down to the point of being completely frozen) damage my computer.

    Best of luck to those who have working versions, I hope i will join you soon !

  8. #8

    Default Re: Version 1.6 Beta Test Bug Reports

    Ostland
    difficulty: Hard/Hard
    Turn: 5
    issue:
    Game crashes during end turn phase, not attacking or defending any battles, not moving any armies, not doing anything except building some roads and farms in my starting settlements

  9. #9
    Lord Baal's Avatar Praefectus
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    Default Re: Version 1.6 Beta Test Bug Reports

    Well, currently I'm simply saving up before each time I'm pressing end turn, and if a crash happens then I simply reload and end turn again, and then the crash is almost certanly gone. It's weird but it's the only way to play test the whole thing for now.
    PROUD TO BE A PESANT. And for the dimwitted, I know how to spell peasant. <== This blue things are links, you click them and magical things (like not ending up like a fool) happens.
    Visit my utterly wall of doom here.
    Do you wanna play SS 6.4 and take your time while at it? Play with my 12 turns per year here.
    Y también quieres jugar Stainless Steel 100% en español? Mira por aca.

  10. #10
    Semisalis
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    Default Re: Version 1.6 Beta Test Bug Reports

    yup , i do the same. But in all cases, the issues are recurrent..pilgrim told that he will take a look on the last errors that happen for many of us (crash with tc_undeclared_attack etc)

  11. #11

    Default Re: Version 1.6 Beta Test Bug Reports

    Hell, I am not one to back from a fight ! After several attempts i reached a point where I can run the game and custom battles without a crash. Campaign still crashes for me.

    Has anyone managed to run the beta on RoDG? CoW doesnt run for me, but RoDG allows me to play at least custom battles.

  12. #12
    The Holy Pilgrim's Avatar In Memory of Blackomur
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    Default Re: Version 1.6 Beta Test Bug Reports

    I'm running the mod on the official download.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Version 1.6 Beta Test Bug Reports

    I have some problems with Chaos Dwarf Blunderbusses, consistently causing crashes, Sigmar Preserve us ones, occasionally fatal graphics crashes.
    Seems to happen quite often on Huge unit sizes, when Blunderbuss fires on a single unit and it's splash/missed shots keep on going and hit hundreds of more units.
    Really causing big problems for me testing the faction.

    I think it is due to the extreme amount of particles in the shot should probably be reworked, my machine seems to get a lag of 1-2 seconds whenever a full blunderbuss unit fires. Roughly 35% of the time crashes occur using Blunderbuss for me.

    Ratling Gun is also a CTD for me.
    Assassin unit for Skaven is not buildable, but exists for the AI in both Skaven Lairs near the Orcs. Model appears to be glitched all black as well maybe a shading issue.

    Also I believe that Sylvania, Orcs, and Skaven should all get their various cities throughout the Empire even as the player, because of the extreme changes to economy in 1.6 Skaven, I have had to cheat for well, a lot of money just to expand and keep from dying, and the Skaven are the best off when it comes to constant battles for income.
    Or those orc/sylvania/skaven cities should be pre built with max tier buildings to have a high incentive to even capture them because as it stands to the player those cities are worth SIGNIFICANTLY less than other Empire cities, because they can be looted and destroyed for money.

    The Empire and other factions also need a big look at with these new economy changes, when I tried Nordland I barely had a 20 stacks army on turn one and was already negative in cash income, and out of Nordlands 5 expansion options, Skaven Lair, Sylvania Castle, Rebel City, Beastman and Orcs, only the Beastman option can your starter army actually defeat.

  14. #14
    Semisalis
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    Default Re: Version 1.6 Beta Test Bug Reports

    Assassin unit from Eshin Clan is an event and if i remember well, their model is ok in battle.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Version 1.6 Beta Test Bug Reports

    Do you guys think i should report recurring bugs when I play on a Gigantus mod base or not? To avoid confusing people. I ask since I have managed to persuade the 1.6 to work through dark magic and huge help from Gigantus himself. (as can be expected, the reason was so trivial it hurts).

  16. #16
    oelewapper's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Version 1.6 Beta Test Bug Reports

    Hey guys, as stated before, I don't have the time to play extensive stretches (as I have exams this month) but here are a few bugs I've encountered over 22 turns with the Asur (High Elves):

    (Note: I couldn't reproduce any of them. I saved every turn, and I reloaded each time and did exactly the same, but no error returned twice. Maybe it's due to the translation and not the mod itself? I have no idea.)

    -Turn 1: Sent my spy from High Elf Settlement in the Sea of Claws to the first rebel settlement to the right (in Russian, so don't know the name): when he enters, the game crashes ("Sigmar Preserve us!")
    -When advancing turns after turn 1: Crash at Skaven ("Sigmar Preserve us!")
    -When advancing turns after turn 7: Crash at Rebels ("Sigmar Preserve us!")
    -When advancing turns after turn 17: Crash at Skaven ("Sigmar Preserve us!")
    -When advancing turns after turn 19: Crash at Rebels ("Sigmar Preserve us!")
    -When advancing turns after turn 21: Crash at Tomb Kings ("Sigmar Preserve us!")
    -When advancing turns after turn 21: Crash at Rebels ("Sigmar Preserve us!")
    -When advancing turns after turn 22: Crash at Rebels ("Sigmar Preserve us!")

    I haven't had any bugs concerning battles or units, so that's good

  17. #17
    Semisalis
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    Default Re: Version 1.6 Beta Test Bug Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by oelewapper View Post
    Hey guys, as stated before, I don't have the time to play extensive stretches (as I have exams this month) but here are a few bugs I've encountered over 22 turns with the Asur (High Elves):

    (Note: I couldn't reproduce any of them. I saved every turn, and I reloaded each time and did exactly the same, but no error returned twice. Maybe it's due to the translation and not the mod itself? I have no idea.)

    -Turn 1: Sent my spy from High Elf Settlement in the Sea of Claws to the first rebel settlement to the right (in Russian, so don't know the name): when he enters, the game crashes ("Sigmar Preserve us!")
    -When advancing turns after turn 1: Crash at Skaven ("Sigmar Preserve us!")
    -When advancing turns after turn 7: Crash at Rebels ("Sigmar Preserve us!")
    -When advancing turns after turn 17: Crash at Skaven ("Sigmar Preserve us!")
    -When advancing turns after turn 19: Crash at Rebels ("Sigmar Preserve us!")
    -When advancing turns after turn 21: Crash at Tomb Kings ("Sigmar Preserve us!")
    -When advancing turns after turn 21: Crash at Rebels ("Sigmar Preserve us!")
    -When advancing turns after turn 22: Crash at Rebels ("Sigmar Preserve us!")

    I haven't had any bugs concerning battles or units, so that's good
    post your logs, its almost impossible for any developper to say what are the causes without the logs. See the right thread for the "how to do it"

  18. #18
    oelewapper's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: Version 1.6 Beta Test Bug Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyraels View Post
    post your logs, its almost impossible for any developper to say what are the causes without the logs. See the right thread for the "how to do it"
    yeah sorry, should've realised that. I've enabled the log creation now, so alas no logs for the previous crashes...

  19. #19

    Default Re: Version 1.6 Beta Test Bug Reports

    Hey everyone

    I dunno if this is related to 1.6 or its just me being a complete dingus but every time i try to pick a faction in the storm of chaos selection screen. It goes back one window, to where you can choose the Storm of chaos campaign, custom battles and so forth. I installed the mod following the link Pilgrim gave and his instructions. Plz help so i can get to ironing out bugs.

  20. #20
    Kahvipannu's Avatar Bring me Solo & wookie
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    Default Re: Version 1.6 Beta Test Bug Reports

    Quote Originally Posted by mattgrevy View Post
    Hey everyone

    I dunno if this is related to 1.6 or its just me being a complete dingus but every time i try to pick a faction in the storm of chaos selection screen. It goes back one window, to where you can choose the Storm of chaos campaign, custom battles and so forth. I installed the mod following the link Pilgrim gave and his instructions. Plz help so i can get to ironing out bugs.
    Apply the patch again, and remove the files LordNecromancer told in the instructions. Should fix it, it's faulty installation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daedraord9 View Post
    Also, just installed the disc-based version of Medieval 2 and the same thing happened, so I'm fairly certain the problem's not just the Steam version
    I'm using disc-versions too, shouldn't affect things. Most propably it is installation problem if the campaign won't start. Just try installing it again, and remove the right files.

    Quote Originally Posted by Isdanil View Post
    Do you guys think i should report recurring bugs when I play on a Gigantus mod base or not? To avoid confusing people. I ask since I have managed to persuade the 1.6 to work through dark magic and huge help from Gigantus himself. (as can be expected, the reason was so trivial it hurts).
    Propably in this case you should toward them to Gigantus then, but better to ask him first if it will be use for him at this stage.

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