Community Patches - Hyrule Total War

**tedster1995** · October 11, 2015, 04:56 PM

I don't understand why your getting that? I can research just fine with no problem, quick question if you go into the campaign script is there a subheading saying Labrynna research?

**TheHylianJuggalo** · October 11, 2015, 05:26 PM

Originally Posted by tedster1995

I don't understand why your getting that? I can research just fine with no problem, quick question if you go into the campaign script is there a subheading saying Labrynna research?

campaign_script.txt found in the world/maps/campaign/imperal_campaign folder

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Frostwyrmwraith** · October 11, 2015, 05:10 PM

I had a similar problem with the Advanced Ballistics research. I had to go in and make the Cannons dependent on Gunpowder just so I could build cannons.

Odd that for them none of them worked, though, while for me it was just the one research option.

**tedster1995** · October 11, 2015, 05:52 PM

No everything is there. It must be a problem with the building file then? Hmm this is really confusing me

if I had to hazard a guess perhaps something didn't install correctly maybe, maybe I put a piece of code in the wrong place

**Athreon** · October 11, 2015, 07:43 PM

I myself seem to have no issues with it, though I have your patch installed.

**TheHylianJuggalo** · October 12, 2015, 12:51 PM

Okay, I figured out what it was, but just barely.

From what I get you need to do R&D and your basic gunpowder research, wait a turn, and wait yet ANOTHER turn before your gunners even become available. Then, you have to wait another four turns for the 'next available' unit. Like Frostwyrm, Advanced Ballistics does nothing, and I haven't screwed with EVERY possible combination of tech depot and research. After some money and construction cheating, and waiting the aforementioned two turns, I was able to produce a gunner unit with a gunnery range, gunpowder and hydraulics research, and advanced ballistics.

I think it boils down to me not understanding the tech tree, but whatever path it follows, CLEARLY does not fall in line with the image provided on the Wiki as of yet. How exactly does this thing branch out?

Also, where the hell are my schools?

**Eldren** · October 12, 2015, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by TheHylianJuggalo

Also, where the hell are my schools?

The Schools was a religious unrest fix I posted a while a go some where in here.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?550408-Faction-Labrynna-Regime/page6
It would be nice to include them in to the community patch. There are other small fixes for many things through out a lot of threads.
And even in the tread I linked you to. There are a few other fixes.

**tedster1995** · October 12, 2015, 02:07 PM

Well you build a gunpowder then ballistics become avaliable, ill have a look again but at the end of the day i cant change the fact it takes a turn for units thats a problem the game has

**TheHylianJuggalo** · October 12, 2015, 04:52 PM

So I finally figured out how the research branching works (everything goes though Lynna as a one-time), and oh my sweet baby Jesus Chirst riding a flaming unicycle...

I have NEVER, once, in my life seen such a broken techree.

So I decided to do an experiment for the Labrynnian techtree, and see EXACTLY how long it would take to build one of each upper-tier unit. This included Gunners, Mechs, Tanks, and Cannons.

Let me preface this experiment by stating the following:

1. Regardless of town size, be it hamlet or a metropolis, you can only build exactly ONE structure at a time.

2. This experiment did not account for any tax rate other than 'normal'.

3. This experiment was done using money cheats (I had 2M), but for the sake of a player, we'll assume you only have the base 10K to start with, and that you're ALLOWED to go negative.

4. This experiment did not account for ANY other structures in the city (as there were none built), nor a person's eventual need to build commerce/entertainment for income.

5. This experiment saw that no other units were built other than those spawned on turn 2, and the first two generals and two bodyguards that were eventually automatically spawned. This did not account for upkeep, battle costs, or diplomatic relations, as absolutely no AI interaction occurred.

5. This experiment was intended to spend the LEAST possible amount of time on building high-tier units, all other factors be damned. As a result, the following was in effect:

A: To build ONLY the structures and upgrades necessary to create the units in question

B: to use ONLY the two starting settlements, with Lynna focused on gunpowder, and Symmetry focused on steam.

Here's the play-by-play.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

I'll leave you guys to do the rest of the math, but all things considered when you factor in other buildings, your enemy's build speed and aggression, the economy....

Yeah, NONE of this adds up to an advantage. Accounting for other structures, you'd be lucky to field a single modern unity by turn 30, but most likely you'd be waiting till 50. It really doesn't matter what 'side' you pick in this fix, so long as it's addressed. All things considered, there's a hectic imbalance here - wither that fix is giving Labrynna a boost to economy and reducing their turn times with that factory, or if it's smashing the nerf hammer over everyone else that neighbors them, I don't particularly care. Basic math can tell you that you're going to be in a constantly crappy position to build an army.

**tedster1995** · October 12, 2015, 05:23 PM

Well if it bothers you this much then by all means fix it the way you feel is best and ill include it, I have said MANY times, I have no idea how to balance this game, this building project was to add a few things from Nephs tech tree and if you don't like how I've done it then I'm sorry but again I'm not an expert I'm still very new to this and am only doing it because SirMark left and nobody else offered. So if I make the odd blunder here and there again I'm sorry but I'm human at the end of the day, so please don't talk down to me in the way your doing I find it quite annoying.

right rant over, in your opinion how would be the best way to rectify this, reduce cost, reduce turn times, boost to starting funds? Or a mix of them all?

**Frostwyrmwraith** · October 12, 2015, 06:05 PM

Some of those assumptions make the end result rather inaccurate. For one, if you don't finish the gunnery range/garage until the turn you finish the research, whatever units you're building are available immediately. No wait time. It's also extremely unrealistic to assume you're not expanding at all in that time.

Putting those into play, you're getting your first high-end units way faster. Even with economic buildings, etc, I had gunners on the field by turn...fifteen? Sixteen? Somewhere in there. The trick is not to rely on Lynna City for everything. Build the relevant structures in another city, time it to to finish as the gunpowder research does, and you get them much earlier.

That said, Labrynna does need some fixes. I think increasing the economic potential first would go a long way. Crown Ridge could use a higher mining income, maybe in the 100-200 range. Lynna City should get higher trade income, maybe in line with Domain Prime or Rutoval. It's an industrial city, let's make it reflect that. Nuun needs a smaller rebel garrison so it's easier to take, especially since it's basically the only other city in the area with any pay-off.

After that, I see two ways of dealing with the research. One, axe it entirely and merge it with the structures themselves. Something like Tech Depot=> Gunmaking/Vehicle Factory. Two, halve the construction times. Leave the top-level times at two turns, but make it one for the tech depot, gunpowder, and hydraulics, and two for the garage and gunnery range. And maybe drop Gunner availability time by one turn as well. I'm leaning towards the second one, personally.

After that, some factions do need a nerf bat hit as well.

Zoras: Artillery is way too hard to kill. A multi-cannon unit like the Bigocto Siege platform should not have anti cavalry, size, armor, damage, and fear effects rolled into one. Off the top of my head; I'm pretty sure there's more going for them. I'm not sure the unit itself should be in the game, frankly, but if it's going to be then it needs to lose some of those attributes. Floodmasters need a smack as well. They should not have very long range, area attack, piercing, and anti armor. Make them a anti-mob unit. Drop the range to standard, kill the anti-armor and piercing. That way other ranged units have a prayer of countering them and melee units can actually close in.

Fairies: These guys need upkeep costs. Badly. I took sixty settlements in fifty or so turns, and I could have gone faster. And if you don't kill them early, they will start throwing three armies at you for every one you can field. Their tier one units should have something in the 5-15 range, probably not much higher for the tier two fairy units. Beam Golems need something 100-200. I dunno if you've ever used them, but you can, I kid you not, take a fully manned settlement with a single unit of Beam Golems if you dance them just right. Especially if there's a gate! Korrigans need a larger unit size; so do Mad Mystics. Maybe somewhere around 50-60 troops. They also need more buildings capable of adding to public order, because right now it's incredibly difficult to keep towns happy for them, moving into 'outright impossible' range in the late game. Maybe just, I dunno, tack happiness modifiers onto their fountains and Tarminion buildings, with a larger bonus for summer fountains.

Ordona: Holy. Crap. Their economy is even more broken than the Fairies. By turn 100 I had impossible amounts of money. I'm talking 1,000,000 rupees with 60 settlements and many, many armies. I think this is the only faction that can conceivably counter the Fairies on a 1:1 basis. I dunno what their bonus to income is, but it needs to be toned down a bit.

Every faction needs priests. I think that was a deliberate design choice, but it leaves a lot of factions with no method for countering religious unrest as high as 80%. Atheist factions like Labrynna are especially in need of this. Maybe their schools could count as religious structure counterparts?

Sorry if my tone is off in places, I'm rushing. I'm really just trying to be helpful, promise!

**tedster1995** · October 12, 2015, 06:18 PM

I know everyone is trying to be helpful with feedback but there is ways of doing it is all I'm saying, I have no idea how to change a cities trade income :/ I think Domain Prime does because it has a lot of gold Lynna is just a massive field with a coastline. Okay I'll do what you said I'll decrease the construction time and give them a boost to starting economy maybe an additional 5000, hopefully the factories and Tokay bonus should help them out a bit as well.

As for the fairies I think you should put the upkeep unit sizes to someone else if you don't know how to do it, the edu is a mystery to me. But the next version will have the Horon bonus so that will give the fairies a small but universal happiness boost. Again I'm trying to stay true to Nephs original tech tree plan thing and only add an addition with his say so, like giving the Zola building a trade and population boost, since that's the only way they will get a somewhat stable economy.

As for religious unrest Geblide made a post about the gun towers and how they could be built by a faction by faction basis, perhaps a way could be done for the religious buildings, so factions can build their own temples regardless of what percentage of religion as well as build the local version if they so please.

**TheHylianJuggalo** · October 12, 2015, 06:27 PM

I would say a bit of a mix for them all.

ECONOMY

The economy goes bad mainly due to the fact that you have very little to work with the way of starting funds. There are little if any bonuses to leech off of (such as mining, which we know Labrynna does). I would say that if anything, Labrynna should perhaps the the second or third richest faction in the game at start, due to their industrialization. Perhaps give them resource bonuses that start out bountiful, but drop drastically (and I mean DRASTICALLY) after the first ten or so turns (this would also reflect the lore of them drying up the land).

It gives them a boost to build a functional modern army that still has a decent chance of getting axed if they're not careful. It's just that modern technology is Labrynna's bread and butter when it comes to combat, so to not have at least a regiment of gunmen running around by, turn 15 or so, really puts them at a massive loss against their neighbors, who will straight up bum-rush you. (I got attacked by three different factions during my test, one of which was the RZ) The metals from Subrosia are the only thing, I've noticed, keeping Labrynna players afloat most of the time. Considering the factions that are out in that region though, you're gonna have one hell of a time managing the defense of the desert, even if you absorb Horon and the Tokay as well by then.

COMBAT

I know people have always complained about Labrynna being OP - As the resident expert, I can attest that, yes, they were. Keyword there: WERE.

People were concerned about the gunners being able to deal with an entire army with a single squad lined up an 2x2, fire-by-rank setup, as well as their skirmish mode speed, being able to outrun most units. First of all, if you put them in a 2x2, YOU are setting them up in the most deadly position, no

they're gonna mow down a few hundred troops. As a single squad though? Far from it. Their skirmish speed has been reduced, as well as their accuracy. Also, most of the time, you can flank them out with calvary. It's not my fault that most people were testing out Labrynna with the AI, and they're only capable of charging straight at you. Try playing against a human, and you can EASILY get the hell beat out of you in all sorts of creative ways.

Nobody really said anything about the mechs, but I was a BIG advocate of nerfing them to hell - 3.5 and earlier, mechs could survive virtually anything thrown at them, the only thing stopping them dead, nothing short of Darknut Legendaries or equivalent. They're still tough, and I've won WICKED deadly battles with them alone, but back to the Darknut example, assaulting their capital with nothing but, while faced with a mix of all their units (put one of each in the Darknut stack, then loop over when you run out), will often leave you with a 50/50 chance of winning, still leaning towards the Darknut side. It's good to see them put on par with, rather than overpowering Cliff Lords.

Gunner posts needed to be removed - no argument there.

Tanks - these guys are a hit and miss - a bit too accurate for my liking, but still, fairly messy aiming. People wanted the 'melee' nerfed for the tanks, but all in all, they're not too bad. On the flip side:

EVER SEEN WHAT A WIZZROBE EARTH REAPER CAN DO!? O_O

Now THAT is an overpowered melee attack on a siege weapon. Avatar can attest to that - it's where we found out, sometime last year.

I think the modern weapons are more than worth their salt, and fairly balanced in this build, but I DO NOT think that Labrynna's melee troops are any bit helpful. Even the humans, as they are, are almost as weak as Stalfos, but at least the zombies have the huge number advantage to make up for it. If you're going to keep the long wait times for the tech units, I highly recommend a buff for the homeguards and knights of Ambi. If not that, and you DO keep the long build times, consider fixing their neighbor's build speed and autoresolve problems. (looking at you, Zora and Deku.)

CONSTRUCTION

This is gonna be fairly brief, but this problem stems from the lack of implementation of the factory building - allowing you to build more than one structure at a time, or virtually halving build times may help with the economy here, and the long wait for modern units. I keep pushing the 'modern' part, because, as I said with the crappy melee, Labrynna NEEDS its guns if it wants to get anywhere. It's, you know, kinda what they're known for. Simple fix, get the factory running.

CULTURE

Hoo, boy. Need I go on about this whole religious unrest thing? When you get a chance, put the schools in. This causes all sorts of rioting problems, especially during early expansion.

Anyway, thanks for listening to me

for the past five hours. (No, seriously, between this experiment and typing both the essays, I've been writing this crap from 1 to 6:30, as of my time and this sentence.

Also, sorry if I came off as mean about it, I wasn't trying to insult your technical skills

**tedster1995** · October 12, 2015, 06:38 PM

Well I had a thought to stop the problem with the gunners and mechs taking forever to appear if you already constructed a depo, maybe have it so they can only be built after the appropriate research as in the gunner one and hydraulics one?

the reducing resources is a good idea maybe something can be done with the kings purse and it reduces every 2 turns maybe and stops at 500 so it's level with everyone else that's the easiest way I can think anyway. Yea gunner posts need to be gone and ill give a boost to higher tier buildings across the board, construction time wise I mean.

I swear I saw a thread somewhere in the workshop on how to make a faction religiously tolerant, perhaps that could be a workaround Labrynna doesn't seem forceful in it's ideology, I haven't added the schools because of limited space maybe the factory could give a small "religious" boost? If Labrynna absorbs the 3 nearest NPC's then it will get a universal mining and happiness boost as well as having their building time reduced combine that with the ability to cut down on building costs and that could give the buff you were after.

**Gebilde** · October 13, 2015, 06:30 AM

Originally Posted by tedster1995

I swear I saw a thread somewhere in the workshop on how to make a faction religiously tolerant, perhaps that could be a workaround Labrynna doesn't seem forceful in it's ideology, I haven't added the schools because of limited space maybe the factory could give a small "religious" boost? If Labrynna absorbs the 3 nearest NPC's then it will get a universal mining and happiness boost as well as having their building time reduced combine that with the ability to cut down on building costs and that could give the buff you were after.

This one?
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post13822489
And how about adding automatik convertation in
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post13952997

**Frostwyrmwraith** · October 12, 2015, 06:51 PM

If you can't (or won't, as the case may be- no worries either way, I can't either) do it, perhaps we should think about making a proposals thread for Neph's benefit. Some of these changes are probably far-reaching enough it probably wouldn't hurt to take them directly to him, especially if he's putting more focus on the campaign anyway.

Can Gunner Posts even be built? If they can I have no clue how to get them.

**tedster1995** · October 12, 2015, 06:53 PM

That's not a bad idea I hate pestering him with constant Pm's

**Eldren** · October 13, 2015, 03:22 PM

Would any one who helps with the Community Patches be interested in helping with the Kingdom of the Golden Land Mod
You can find our work in a post here: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?561067-Kingdom-of-the-Golden-Land-Mod&p=14729832#post14729832

**tedster1995** · October 13, 2015, 06:07 PM

Oookay so after about 2 hours the Tokay NPC bonus is implemented, it cuts down the number of turns it takes to build MOST settlements, also the Factory/Bonemold Shapery and the lumber mills now work and reduce the cost of buildings within its host settlement, and the Geblides Huskus towers are in ready for Neph to implement. All I need to do now is add Eldrens fixes and increase the starting economy and I think I'm ready to release

I'm thinking of giving everyone 20,000 to start with, that seems like a decent amount?

**tedster1995** · October 14, 2015, 05:44 PM

So here we go new version alert

Community Patch 3.8CS
This version brings a few changes and improvements, alongside the odd bug fix as well. I also want to give a massive thank you to Eldren and Geblide, who provided me with most of the code for this version, ill add there name alongside specific things they helped with

Changelog

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

Well I hope everyone likes the changes made, as always I would love to hear your thoughts feedback. This will probably be the last version until the next version

unless you find a major bug.

Community Patch 3.8CS.rar

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