Feedback: Traits & Ancillaries

[Amroth]

Some major work has been done on the traits and ancillaries, and we will continue to work on them. But to improve on them we need constructive critiscism and feedback. So:

- What's good? And what's bad?
- How is the frequency? Are some appearing too often? Some not often enough?
- How are the effects? Are some too low, or too high?
- Have you noticed any bugs or other issues?

Also, I'll be happy to answer any questions regarding them.

List of Issues Raised:

- More negative traits and ancillaries.
- More traits/ancillaries which give management boosts.
- Famous weapons should not give command bonuses.
- Elf-man & Elven Fair should not give management bonuses.
- Half-troll should give negative effects to influence and squalor.
- Additional traits and ancillaries for spies and assassins (especially for Harad).
- Too many ancillaries give command bonuses, or they are too easy to get hold of.

[Grand Master of the Order]

After a quick look into the exp_descr's it seems that there are lots of positive stats, but very less negative.
I like the traits you have added, but as all 3 races are human and humans are often mistaken plus easy to corrupt it seems a bit overpowered. Or in other words, what will you grant to the superhuman elves if gondorians are gifted with such traits and ancillaries?

[Fondor_Yards]

Right now I'm loving the traits and ancillaries you have in it right now. The best system of them other then EB I've ever seen. Althought there doesn't seem to be many mangement type traits or ancillaries right now. Many instead of all the "Lord of Area XX" things could give more mangement boosts for RK and Harad, since they had large well managed cities compaired to Rhun instead of just command influence boosts.

[Amroth]

Thanks for the feedback guys. So:

- More negative traits.
- More traits/ancillaries which give management boosts.

[Tiberius Brutus]

Should sum it up pretty neatly yes.

[HBI]

I have a couple suggestions for traits and such.
-Leechcraft i don't think should influence fertility rate
-Weapons like Anduril or the Axe of Uldor shouldn't convey any command points because its the man that makes the weapon, not the weapon that makes the man.
-Why do Elf-man, and Elven Fair convey a bonus to management?
-I don't like the term Emperor of Harad... just doesn't seem Tolkien. The Games Workshop has Umbar ruled by a council, so maybe something like Lord of the Council might sound better.
-Half-Troll should have different effects: -1 influence, +1 squalor

I also have a couple new traits and ancillaries too
-Hunted: This is a marked man. He doesn't trust bodyguards, or food tasters (such men can be bought). He moves from place to place, sleeping lightly and with a knife under his pillow. -1 to personal security.
-Doomed: At some point one of the wise foresaw that this man would fall before his time. -1 to hitpoints. -1 to personal security
-Overly Cautious: This man has been unnerved by an assassination attempt. He sees plots to kill him everywhere and considers it a morning wasted if he hasn't found three plots to kill him before lunchtime. +1 to personal security. -1 to influence.
-Obsessed with linage: This man is a noble of old Numenorian stock and looks down on the lesser peoples of Middle Earth. -1 influence.+1 to unrest.
-Hates the sea: This man has a distinct dislike for Ulmo and all his works. Ulmo it seems shares the sentiment. -1 to trade.

-Dune Man: Years of hard desert living make hard men. +1 command in the desert.
-Craven Councilor: This treacherous man has the Lord's ear and though he lacks courage is dangerous. -1 influence. +1 unrest.
-Dwarvish Craftsmen: Dwarves are renown throughout Middle Earth for their skill in building. 20% discount to building costs. +15 build points during a siege.
-Dwarvish Merchant: The Dwarves make many beautiful, useful, and sometimes magical items that are highly sought across Middle Earth.
-Elvish Tutor: Though most of the First-born have departed from these shores some still linger, determined to preserve the lessons of the past in the minds of Men. +1 influence. +1 management. -1 from squalor.

Finally Games Workshop had an interesting thing for Haradrim spies and assassins. If a spy completes so many missions or assassin eliminates so many targets he could become a Hasharii.

-Member of the Harashin Order: +3 to the agents skill

The despotic lords who rule Harad exercise their will through the Hâsharii, an order of assassins founded long ago in Sauron's name. After many were killed during the War of the Ring, and a later purge by King Elessar they were thought gone forever. However several members of the elusive order survived and now seek to expand their ranks with the rebellion in the South.

Well that's all i got

[Amroth]

I have a couple suggestions for traits and such.
-Leechcraft i don't think should influence fertility rate

Having a leech in your retinue would most probably lead to more children surviving birth. A leech would also know of herbs that could aid fertility.

-Weapons like Anduril or the Axe of Uldor shouldn't convey any command points because its the man that makes the weapon, not the weapon that makes the man.

Those may need a re-think - the reasoning behind the command bonuses is the influence such famous weapons would have on the troops being commanded. This may be better conveyed with a morale bonus.

-Why do Elf-man, and Elven Fair convey a bonus to management?

I agree they shouldn't - must have been an oversight on my part.

-I don't like the term Emperor of Harad... just doesn't seem Tolkien. The Games Workshop has Umbar ruled by a council, so maybe something like Lord of the Council might sound better.

There is a reference to the 'many kingdoms of the Harad' in LotR - in the Fourth Age these kingdoms have been united under a single ruler, hence the term Emperor.

-Half-Troll should have different effects: -1 influence, +1 squalor

I agree - though I will probably retain the positive effects to morale and hitpoints.

I also have a couple new traits and ancillaries too
-Hunted: This is a marked man. He doesn't trust bodyguards, or food tasters (such men can be bought). He moves from place to place, sleeping lightly and with a knife under his pillow. -1 to personal security.
-Doomed: At some point one of the wise foresaw that this man would fall before his time. -1 to hitpoints. -1 to personal security
-Overly Cautious: This man has been unnerved by an assassination attempt. He sees plots to kill him everywhere and considers it a morning wasted if he hasn't found three plots to kill him before lunchtime. +1 to personal security. -1 to influence.
-Obsessed with linage: This man is a noble of old Numenorian stock and looks down on the lesser peoples of Middle Earth. -1 influence.+1 to unrest.
-Hates the sea: This man has a distinct dislike for Ulmo and all his works. Ulmo it seems shares the sentiment. -1 to trade.

-Dune Man: Years of hard desert living make hard men. +1 command in the desert.
-Craven Councilor: This treacherous man has the Lord's ear and though he lacks courage is dangerous. -1 influence. +1 unrest.
-Dwarvish Craftsmen: Dwarves are renown throughout Middle Earth for their skill in building. 20% discount to building costs. +15 build points during a siege.
-Dwarvish Merchant: The Dwarves make many beautiful, useful, and sometimes magical items that are highly sought across Middle Earth.
-Elvish Tutor: Though most of the First-born have departed from these shores some still linger, determined to preserve the lessons of the past in the minds of Men. +1 influence. +1 management. -1 from squalor.

Some of those are interesting, and will definitely be included.

Finally Games Workshop had an interesting thing for Haradrim spies and assassins. If a spy completes so many missions or assassin eliminates so many targets he could become a Hasharii.

-Member of the Harashin Order: +3 to the agents skill

The despotic lords who rule Harad exercise their will through the Hâsharii, an order of assassins founded long ago in Sauron's name. After many were killed during the War of the Ring, and a later purge by King Elessar they were thought gone forever. However several members of the elusive order survived and now seek to expand their ranks with the rebellion in the South.

We try to keep away from all other interpretations of Tolkien's work - which includes other games and movies, etc. Some additional traits and ancillaries for spies and assassins will probably be included, though.

Well that's all i got

Thanks for your very detailed feedback - it is much appreciated!

[Hanny]

traits that are allowing more charatcers to be born is in part causing large numbers of charcters to be in game as Harad, after you play a whil;e you have dozens of characters, costing 35-35% of your income to maintain, i solved this by reducing maintaince cost of charcters by 80% rather than tinker with traits, but if i was to do so i would have more movement + and - and cut standard movement rates drasticly, so that Lt move a limited distance and good/bad commanders move better or worse than the Lt.

[Alatar]

Do you have a hands of the king trait for aldarion and his sons that goes from father to son? If it's mentioned in tolkien it should be in, but I reckon you've already got that apoc?

[Amroth]

Right you are, Alatar! I need to make a small change to the epithet that is gained with it, though.

[HBI]

One of my characters finally became an Elf Friend and has an elvish companion and i just wanted to ask if its possible to have a better portrait for an Elf... this one just looks weird.

[MasterOfNone]

LOL. We are working on that. Those images were taken from early models made by us for the Elven faction. If anyone knows of any nice elven face images that we can use, let us know!

[Arakorn]

Some of our artists, Karen Wynn or so?

[Amroth]

Anke Eissmann, you mean?

And the Elven image issue was noted by myself to Pal. about a week ago - he sent me on a hunt for good Elven faces, but I have been unable to find any I think will work. Suggestions would be most welcome!

[Hanny]

Anke Eissmann, you mean?

And the Elven image issue was noted by myself to Pal. about a week ago - he sent me on a hunt for good Elven faces, but I have been unable to find any I think will work. Suggestions would be most welcome!

Ive already done this for a number of traits/anc/characters and used the following.
http://www.warofthering.net/quintess...iler/index.htm in particular from Fellowship council pictures, http://lotrtcg.fanhq.com/TCG/CardLis...ID=7&listID=51 gives a ton of usable pictures, and the Minas Tirith project (dont hav ethe url to hand) does the same for gondorian buildings to replace some of the pre existing ones. 2 mins with photoshop and your done.

[MasterOfNone]

Thanks Hanny but we have a policy of not using anything taken from the movies, or indeed any high-profile copyrighted material (or any copyrighted material at all if we can).

[Hanny]

Thanks Hanny but we have a policy of not using anything taken from the movies, or indeed any high-profile copyrighted material (or any copyrighted material at all if we can).

Understandable policy!, one i dont have to worry about thankfully, haveing replaced the 3 CD`s LOTR music into the game for instance makes me happy, but would upset the copyright owners no end if i then made it available online.


How do you feel about using facial imagry?, there are a number of such you could use to put your own face into the game as charatcers, all you need is to add them to a screens shot taken from battle cam, and put them into the shot, and viola!, head shot of you in RK helmet.


Side note, dont be skimpy with extra hps for charatcers, +4 simply means they stay alive while the ai does fool hardy things that exterminate the bodyguard....

[Arakorn]

Anke Eissmann, you mean?

And the Elven image issue was noted by myself to Pal. about a week ago - he sent me on a hunt for good Elven faces, but I have been unable to find any I think will work. Suggestions would be most welcome!

Yeah sorry, Karen is the Atlas of ME-author :wink: Hehe, how stupid of me!

[Amroth]

I'd just like to say that I am in the process of coding in new traits and ancillaries (about 50 new so far), and I would like to ask for suggestions from the community. Especially for Rohan and Dunland

[HBI]

Rohan Traits:
Horse Master- This man has an intimate knowledge of horses and the best use of cavalry on the battlefield. +20% movement points, +1 command.

Hatred of Dunlendings- The only good thing to come out of Dunland is a road leading somewhere else. +1 command when fighting Dunlendings.

Hatred of Orcs- This man despises Orcs and their butchery. +1 command when fighting Orcs.

Marshal of the East Mark- This man is one of the three Marshals of the Riddermark. From his base at Aldburg this man commands the muster of the Eastfolde. +3 Command, +1 influence.

Marshal of the West Mark- This man is one of the three Marshals of the Riddermark, the highest military rank in the realm. From his base at Helm's Deep this man commands the muster of the Westfolde. +3 command, +1 influence.

Marshal of Edoras- This man is one of the three Marshals of the Riddermark, the highest military rank in the realm. From the Golden Hall this man commands the muster of Edoras. +3 command, +1 influence.

Chieftain of the Eorlingas- This man is the lord of ______. +1 influence.

Cattle Herder- The men of Rohan keep many herds on the open plains and in the Wolde and men who own the largest herds wield great influence. +1 influence.

Rohan Ancillaries:
Gondorian Mail- This ancient, yet still excellent, shirt of mail was gifted to this man's ancestor for service to that realm. +1 to the general's hit points.

Meras- This horse might have been bred in the morning of the world. +10% movement points.

Bard- The Rohirrim write no books, but have many stories and write many songs. A bard passes down the history of the realm through oral tradition. +1 influence.

Black Horn- Fierce blasts from this horn once held by Erkenbrand, lord of Helm's Deep inspires courage in men. +1 moral.

Scout- small groups of light riders fan out in front of the man host, picking out the lay of the land, and finding the position of the enemy. +1 line of sight, +1 skill at ambushing.

Royal Banner- The Banner of the King inspires troops to heroic deeds and is a point around which men can rally if the battle goes ill. +1 moral.


Dunlending Traits-
Hatred of the Rohirrim- Many men in Dunland hate the Rohirrim with a blind passion. +1 command when fighting the Rohirrim.

Fear of the Rohirrim- This man remembers well the stories of Helm Hammerhand of old and rightly fears the men of Rohan. -1 command when fighting the Rohirrim.

Horsemen- Being in possession of a horse, or fielding a bodyguard of horsemen is something that is sure to increase one's status in Dunlending society. +1 influence, +1 command.

Lord of Adorn- Though technically a part of Rohan, the lands below the river Adorn have long been populated by a people of mixed Dunlendish blood. +1 influence.

Wolf Hunter- This man has taken part in the dangerous sport of wolf hunting and has reaped the prestige that comes with it. +1 influence.

Dunlending Ancillaries:
Rohirric Armor- There are few metal workers in Dunland, especially ones good enough to make expensive and time consuming chain mail. This man's armor was probably taken from some fallen Rider, or as simple loot. +1 to your general's hit points.

Hound- you already have a hound option but i think it would work well for Dunland.

Wild Man- This man has been made half feral by his hate of the Rohirrim and his many battles against them. +1 to personal security, +1 to valor of general's bodyguard.

Bard- The Men of Dunland write no books, but sing many songs and tell many tales. This man goes from village to village passing this oral tradition from one generation to the next.

Drug Tracker- Wild men akin to those who live in Drudain Forest have dwelt for centuries South of the Isen, by the sea. With the dominion of Men some of the more adventurous of their people have become scouts for the Dunlendings. +1 line of sight, +1 skill at ambushing.

Hmmm... that's all i can think of right now. But its pretty late, i might have some more with a fresh head tomorrow.