German racism raising its ugly head again -- "PEGIDA"

[Sphere]

What race is Islam again?

PEGIDA is agaisnt the German state supplying arms to the PKK and other Kurdish groups in the fight agaisnt the Islamic State. These people are mostly Marxists who are fighting and dying on the front line against Islamic fascism. But they are also Turkish, which happen to be the largest ethnic minority in Germany. Herr Bachmann and PEGIDA are more worried about the German-Turks influence on the German Government than the fight agaisnt the Islamic State.

This is the test of what PEGIDA's is about, and they fail it.

[Trotzig/Konstante]

Multiculturalism doesn't work. At all. It just can't.

[hellheaven1987]

Today is against Muslims, tomorrow is against Slavs.

[Astaroth]

Got another gem from the video: they are talking to this woman (heavy Saxon accent, apparently lacking any sort of higher education, but not unemployed) and she goes like:

"We have so many problems here, we don't have enough money, we work all the time, the politicians ignore us, they don't care about our problems..."

Okay, sounds fair enough so far... she goes on:

"We don't need to bring more problems into the country from outside"

Well, getting sketchy here... but it gets better (worse?):

"Those people are hostile towards us, we don't need those people here"

Interviewer asks: "Who are 'those people'?"

Woman responds: "I don't want to respond to that, I'm not a Nazi"

HAHAHA! In other words, she feels like her actual opinion on who "those people" are would make her a Nazi. Speaks volumes about her views.

[Denny Crane!]

Oh look, it is time for the pointless strawman. Do you have something constructive to add, too?

To spare you further embarassment, I'd suggest watching the video I kindly provided above or simply reading up a bit on the topic. Pegida participants are not merely in opposition to radical Islam; if you talk to them, listen to the demonstrations etc., you'll quickly realise that they oppose immigration in general, that they talk about "die Ausländer" (the foreigners) constantly and so on and so forth. Heck, the very first guy in the video they interviewed -- who gives a generally sane enough impression (i.e. no obviously unemployed skinhead) -- talks about wanting a "nationalist policy". He keeps going on about talking about "those immigrants from Romania and Bulgaria who only come here "zum Einbreche und zum Klaue" (in his fairly stupid-sounding German dialect; in English=to break into houses and to steal stuff).

Even more gems: "We don't need those Tunisians coming over"

But yeah, totally no discrimination based on ethnicity or nationality at all. As long as it is only those nice white Europeans (oh wait, but no Romanians or Bulgarians please!) coming to Germany, eh?


So according to you, discriminating against a group of people is perfectly fine as long as they don't have X amount of scientists among them. Alright, let's start with the Pegida-Neo-Nazis then. I propose expatriating all of them to the North Pole. Deal?


You know, if one speaks against "the Muslims" as a whole that is a blatant display of ignorance, akin to speaking against "the French" or "the Jews".

So by the OP's own admission its nothing to do with racism, it is just anti immigration.

Wow another Astaroth jewel encrusted topic.

PEGIDA is agaisnt the German state supplying arms to the PKK and other Kurdish groups in the fight agaisnt the Islamic State. These people are mostly Marxists who are fighting and dying on the front line against Islamic fascism. But they are also Turkish, which happen to be the largest ethnic minority in Germany. Herr Bachmann and PEGIDA are more worried about the German-Turks influence on the German Government than the fight agaisnt the Islamic State.

This is the test of what PEGIDA's is about, and they fail it.

I had no misconception that they were competent or intelligent but cheers anyway.

[Astaroth]

So by the OP's own admission its nothing to do with racism, it is just anti immigration.

Yeah, making blanket statements about whole groups of people a la "those people are all hostile towards us, they should all be kicked out" or "those Romanians or Bulgarians only come here to steal" is totally not based on racist prejudice. Right, makes perfect sense!

It's just rational people making factual statements! No prejudice! Lmao.

More gems:

"I'm against foreigners."
"I want a more nationalist German policy"
"What, war refugees? I don't believe that, those are all parasites, parasites I say" goes on to say "but I'm not a Nazi!" xD
"It's not really about islamisation... the main thing is, foreigners in general"
"Germany is not a sovereign country... we are ruled by the US, who are controlled by the Jewish financial elite!"

All of these are individual people, all of them "looking normal enough" (i.e. no skinheads/boots). But no racism, right? Rofl!

[Knight of Heaven]

Its not only in Germany, most of europe is seeing this rise. No doubt a result of the economic crisis in the societies, and the fact that the political elite in europe has been incapable to solving it as of now. In fact they made matters worse in alot of cases.

No suprise there, yet it doesnt make it less disturbing.

[sumskilz]

Yeah, making blanket statements about whole groups of people a la "those people are all hostile towards us, they should all be kicked out" or "those Romanians or Bulgarians only come here to steal" is totally not based on racist prejudice. Right, makes perfect sense!

It's just rational people making factual statements! No prejudice! Lmao.

More gems:

"I'm against foreigners."
"I want a more nationalist German policy"
"What, war refugees? I don't believe that, those are all parasites, parasites I say" goes on to say "but I'm not a Nazi!" xD
"It's not really about islamisation... the main thing is, foreigners in general"
"Germany is not a sovereign country... we are ruled by the US, who are controlled by the Jewish financial elite!"

All of these are individual people, all of them "looking normal enough" (i.e. no skinheads/boots). But no racism, right? Rofl!

I have to wonder if a group of people making rational arguments about this topic could do so without also attracting a lot of "those people". By "those people" I mean of course the type you're quoting, but also people with heavy Saxon accents, who are apparently also to be looked down upon.

Anyway, this Lutz Bachmann character doesn't seem too sharp.

[Phalanx300]

Typical leftish escape card, just call the opposite spectrum racist and nazi. These people are voicing their justified concerns, how does that make them racist and nazi?

[Astaroth]

I have to wonder if a group of people making rational arguments about this topic could do so without also attracting a lot of "those people". By "those people" I mean of course the type you're quoting, but also people with heavy Saxon accents, who are apparently also to be looked down upon.

Anyway, this Lutz Bachmann character doesn't seem too sharp.

Look, I'm not just cherry picking these people from a large amount of sensible people who make rational points all the time.

This is from 60+ minutes of uncut (see quality) material by the ARD. Basically every single person they interviewed looked "normal enough" (i.e. not a single obvious skinhead or "obvious Nazi"), all of these people claimed "not to be Nazis", none of these people seemed entirely uncultured (i.e. they could speak somewhat coherently and managed to present some sort of argument), none of them were carrying strange signs or shouting against foreigners.

Yet in their rational-sounding arguments, all of them, without exception, inevitably made comments like the ones I posted above. Not just in a, "oops, I didn't mean it that way" sense, but actually as a major pillar of their arguments.

And note that these are the people who would speak to the press in the first place. The ones who are not carrying giant German flags, shouting "lying press" or "Putin, Putin". The ones who look normal enough and give a "guy next door" impression.

But these "normal enough" people, these "middle of society" PEGIDA-participants apparently hold clearly racist views. Not racist as in "we need a proper immigration law" (that isn't racist), but as in **"I'm against foreigners." "I want a more nationalist German policy" "What, war refugees? I don't believe that, those are all parasites, parasites I say" goes on to say "but I'm not a Nazi!" "It's not really about islamisation... the main thing is, foreigners in general" "Germany is not a sovereign country... we are ruled by the US, who are controlled by the Jewish financial elite!"** And again, they are not the Neo-Nazi fringe of the demonstration. They make up the bulk of it, although they might even be the less radical participants, going by their general way of speaking and acting....

[Trotzig/Konstante]

Don't preserve identity and protect communities. That's racist.

[clone]

Typical leftish escape card, just call the opposite spectrum racist and nazi. These people are voicing their justified concerns, how does that make them racist and nazi?

astaroth leftist or not is nt totally wrong. nazi people are very dangerous. not only for their extremist beliefs but also for trying to show themselves as simple nationalists!

[Astaroth]

Don't preserve identity and protect communities. That's racist.

I don't exactly feel like I have anything in common with those interviewed people who are quite uneducated and exclusively blame foreigners for their own fear and economic problems -- nor do I really want to have anything to do with them. I especially do not want to form or maintain a "community" of any kind with them.

I have lived in more than one country and I'd say I actually have a lot more in common with someone with a different nationality, but from my general age bracket and level of education than with someone else from my own country but a completely different socio-economic group and age bracket.

[Exarch]

the way i see it is that europe has already been "islamised" or more accurately, "middle easternised' in the sense that 2000 or so years ago, many European leaders did away with their native values systems in favour of a middle eastern religion (christianity) which introduced its own version of Sharia law (church law).

It's the same old deal again, if europe wants to keep true to european values, at least have shrines to odin and Talos

[Phalanx300]

astaroth leftist or not is nt totally wrong. nazi people are very dangerous. not only for their extremist beliefs but also for trying to show themselves as simple nationalists!

It is wrong, how are they nazi? Just watch a bit from this video so see their side of the story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzLNXDssNS0. I'm frankly getting tired of people calling others nazi just because they oppose leftish views.

[Ussaid the Hashshashin]

It is wrong, how are they nazi? Just watch a bit from this video so see their side of the story https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzLNXDssNS0. I'm frankly getting tired of people calling others nazi just because they oppose leftish views.

A German racist nationalist is called a Nazi. They are exactly that.

[Denny Crane!]

A German racist nationalist is called a Nazi. They are exactly that.

While everything Stormfront or racists say is racist not everything that a non stormfronter says even if sometimes in a similar vein is necessarily aiming at the same thing. If all the swans you see are white, not every swan has to be white.

[clone]

A German racist nationalist is called a Nazi. They are exactly that.

there are some problems with your post
1 not all racist nationalist are nazi. theoritically at least
2 how do you define racism?someone may be against immigration and not me racist

[Ussaid the Hashshashin]

there are some problems with your post
2 how do you define racism?someone may be against immigration and not me racist

Racism is a hateful mind-set against people of a specific color or "race". There is a thin line between them, I guess. They often times overlap each other, as in if a racist person would of course always be against immigration. Why would someone be against immigration? Most of the time it is based on racist generalization, I think. I understand I may be wrong, so give me one example of opposition to colored immigrants (those Germans weren't protesting about Caucasian immigrants) NOT based on racist generalizations.

[Dave Strider]

What race is Islam again?

Blaming religion is a tactic that many racists use to scapegoat racial minorities who primarily practice said religion. For instance, in Germany, their largest immigrant population is Turkish, though one could assume plenty of Arabs have been moving there as well what with all the various conflicts the Arab world has experienced in the last decade (Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Libya, Palestine, etc). People say they're against the "islamisation" of Europe, but ask them if they have a problem with white Muslims, and they'll almost always say 'no'. They're indirectly targeting the Turks and Arabs by blaming the Muslims - which, of course, the Turks and Arabs (mainly) are.