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Thread: Sneak Peeks {WIP Screenshots}

  1. #101
    Geronimo2006's Avatar TAR Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Sneak Peeks {WIP Screenshots}

    Guardia del Rey Halberdiers (wip).

    http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/7...35601757376945
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  2. #102
    Geronimo2006's Avatar TAR Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Sneak Peeks {WIP Screenshots}

    Russian armed citizenry work in progress.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
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  3. #103

    Default Re: Sneak Peeks {WIP Screenshots}

    Keep it up, great work!

  4. #104

    Default Re: Sneak Peeks {WIP Screenshots}

    I always thought the Opulchnie (sp) were armed with pikes.

  5. #105

    Default Re: Sneak Peeks {WIP Screenshots}

    It's spelt Opolchenie (oh-poll-CHEN-nee-yeah) and simply means "militia" in Russian. This broad term has been historically applied to anything ranging from Landwehr-like troops assembled in times of emergency by the local authorities to peasants-turned-partisans during Napoleon's invasion of Russia. As a native speaker of Russian, I'd say "militia" would be the best translation.

    I'm no historian but as far as I remember, back in the early XVII century, virtually all Russian males would still be sporting beards. It was actually Peter the Great who managed to impose the habit of shaving (along with European clothing) onto the nobles; he wasn't so lucky when it came to commoners. Peasants would wear beards up to the 1920s/1930s -- a man was expected to grow a beard somewhen after 30 years of age. Married men who were the heads of their own families were by all means expected to wear beards. Among city dwellers, beards declined during the XVII-XVIII-XIX centuries but still were not uncommon.

    The red ornamentation on their kaftans is something that in real world was limited almost exclusively to the linen (under)shirts and is largely associated with the present-day regions of Belarus and Ukraine (i.e. Southern Russia and the Lithuanian part of Rzeczpospolita) Probably it was popular with the Russian peasants, too; but in 2018, these guys are bound to be misinterpreted as caricature Ukrainians (this is further reinforced by their lack of beards in 1609, since shaving the beard while keeping a huge moustache is an Ukrainian custom due to the Polish-Lithuanian cultural influence) Again, having those ornaments on their overcoats is ridiculous.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    And I've never heard of a Russian citizen / peasant militia so densely armed with guns. As late as 1812, the militiamen started out armed mostly with makeshift pikes (and axes for sidearms) and only acquired as many guns as they were able to plunder from the enemy. Gunpowder and guns were scarce during the times of emergency that would require the assembly of an Opolchenie, and even though it was not unknown for them to grab as many guns as they could find in the local arsenals, the Opolchenie through the centuries has been closely associated with close combat and polearm weapons. The last known mention of a melee-only, polearm-wielding Opolchenie is from April 1915 (First World War) They were expected to loot their guns from the enemy.

    Probably it would be more accurate to let the player create cheap militia troops armed with pikes that would be upgradeable to a rifle-wielding variant.

    Two centuries later, in 1812 the Opolchenie looked like:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    But things got better once the authorities could afford handing out some rifles (looting the enemy corpses was the more traditional source)
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




  6. #106

    Default Re: Sneak Peeks {WIP Screenshots}

    That's very interesting. Thank you. And thank you for he correct spelling of Opolchenie.

  7. #107
    Geronimo2006's Avatar TAR Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Sneak Peeks {WIP Screenshots}

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick View Post
    I always thought the Opulchnie (sp) were armed with pikes.
    I didnt say they were Opulchnie, I was using Russian civilian peasant dress. But thanks for the information.
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  8. #108

    Default Re: Sneak Peeks {WIP Screenshots}

    Russian civilian peasant dress.
    An overcoat would never have ornamentations like that; it should be plain. It's the shirts that would sport abundant red fancywork. Probably even more so for West and South Russia, Lithuania and Finno-Ugric territories.

    By putting that red stuff on overcoats, you are invoking a very annoying political meme: the vyshyvatnik (a portmanteau of Vyshyvanka and Vatnik)

    "Vatnik" (literal meaning "the cotton-wool-stuffed-thing") aka "telogreika" (literal meaning "body-warmer") is a cheap overcoat stuffed with, well, cotton wool. It has been used for centuries by the Far Eastern nations like the Chinese, Manchu, Tungusic tribes and the occasional Japanese invaders in the region. Around 1930's it was borrowed and modified by the Red Army. Between 1930 and 1970 it enjoyed weirdly universal popularity in the USSR among people of any social standing. But somehow it went down in history as the trademark uniform of GULAG inmates and, in later years, the stereotypical clothing of thugs, ex-cons and inhospitable backwoods dwellers (since it's very cheap and offers some protection against fists and knives)



    In 2018, vatnik is the humorous slang term for a not so bright and overtly belligerent Russian who blames everything on the Western nations -- including the broken light bulbs and piss puddles at the entrance to his house. The stereotypical vatnik combines irrational yet passionate love for Putin, Stalin, the olden days' Imperial Russia and all things authoritarian and un-democratic. The Western counterpart to vatnik would be an inbred, shotgun-wielding redneck who's also a huge Trump supporter. In other words, someone who does a poor job hiding his own idiocy under a mask of blown-out patriotism.

    Vyshyvanka (literal meaning: "the embroidered thing") is exactly that trademark red-ornamented linen shirt that back in the day enjoyed immense popularity across all of Muscovy and Lithuania. In 2018, it's firmly associated with Ukrainians -- especially those with a nationalist / russophobic urge.



    Vyshyvatnik is a non-existent cotton wool overcoat that is heavily ornamented with vyshyvanka-like fancywork. It is used to symbolize the Ukrainian counterparts to Russia's Vatniks -- unintelligent mock patriots who'd love to gas each and every Russian.



    It's a political meme, and -- I must admit -- an extremely cringey and boring one. As well as having nothing to do with history and games that value history.

    I didnt say they were Opulchnie
    Russian armed citizenry work in progress.
    Armed citizenry are basically the same as militia, and opolchenia is just the Russian word for militia.

    The two notable exceptions are the First Opolchenie of 1611 and the Second Opolchenie of 1612 that drove the Poles out of Moscow. Those were full-blown armies including all sorts of troops ranging from the actual militia to mounted gentry and mercenaries. Those two Opolchenies are also famous for using lots of outdated (by European standards) weaponry and armor like axes, maces, bows, Eastern style mirror armor. It's almost universally portrayed as such in the paintings, but in reality it's just the mounted gentry who'd dress up like that. Given Russia's unending conflicts with feudal and tribal nomadic powers who only had bows and no knowledge of gunpowder, armor did make a lot of sense well into the XVIII century (cossacks in the Far East valued chainmail in their war with the Chukchi as late as 1747)

    Aside from the First Opolchenie of 1611 and the Second Opolchenie of 1612 which are the proper names of armies just like the Black Army of Hungary, the word opolchenie simply stands for militia.

    The word opolchenie itself translates as "the assembly of arms against a threat" and shares subtle connotations with the old English word "moot" and the much later Minutemen from the early days of the US.

  9. #109
    Geronimo2006's Avatar TAR Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Sneak Peeks {WIP Screenshots}

    Quote Originally Posted by mcbak View Post
    An overcoat would never have ornamentations like that; it should be plain. It's the shirts that would sport abundant red fancywork. Probably even more so for West and South Russia, Lithuania and Finno-Ugric territories.

    By putting that red stuff on overcoats, you are invoking a very annoying political meme: the vyshyvatnik (a portmanteau of Vyshyvanka and Vatnik)

    "Vatnik" (literal meaning "the cotton-wool-stuffed-thing") aka "telogreika" (literal meaning "body-warmer") is a cheap overcoat stuffed with, well, cotton wool. It has been used for centuries by the Far Eastern nations like the Chinese, Manchu, Tungusic tribes and the occasional Japanese invaders in the region. Around 1930's it was borrowed and modified by the Red Army. Between 1930 and 1970 it enjoyed weirdly universal popularity in the USSR among people of any social standing. But somehow it went down in history as the trademark uniform of GULAG inmates and, in later years, the stereotypical clothing of thugs, ex-cons and inhospitable backwoods dwellers (since it's very cheap and offers some protection against fists and knives)



    In 2018, vatnik is the humorous slang term for a not so bright and overtly belligerent Russian who blames everything on the Western nations -- including the broken light bulbs and piss puddles at the entrance to his house. The stereotypical vatnik combines irrational yet passionate love for Putin, Stalin, the olden days' Imperial Russia and all things authoritarian and un-democratic. The Western counterpart to vatnik would be an inbred, shotgun-wielding redneck who's also a huge Trump supporter. In other words, someone who does a poor job hiding his own idiocy under a mask of blown-out patriotism.

    Vyshyvanka (literal meaning: "the embroidered thing") is exactly that trademark red-ornamented linen shirt that back in the day enjoyed immense popularity across all of Muscovy and Lithuania. In 2018, it's firmly associated with Ukrainians -- especially those with a nationalist / russophobic urge.



    Vyshyvatnik is a non-existent cotton wool overcoat that is heavily ornamented with vyshyvanka-like fancywork. It is used to symbolize the Ukrainian counterparts to Russia's Vatniks -- unintelligent mock patriots who'd love to gas each and every Russian.



    It's a political meme, and -- I must admit -- an extremely cringey and boring one. As well as having nothing to do with history and games that value history.



    Armed citizenry are basically the same as militia, and opolchenia is just the Russian word for militia.

    The two notable exceptions are the First Opolchenie of 1611 and the Second Opolchenie of 1612 that drove the Poles out of Moscow. Those were full-blown armies including all sorts of troops ranging from the actual militia to mounted gentry and mercenaries. Those two Opolchenies are also famous for using lots of outdated (by European standards) weaponry and armor like axes, maces, bows, Eastern style mirror armor. It's almost universally portrayed as such in the paintings, but in reality it's just the mounted gentry who'd dress up like that. Given Russia's unending conflicts with feudal and tribal nomadic powers who only had bows and no knowledge of gunpowder, armor did make a lot of sense well into the XVIII century (cossacks in the Far East valued chainmail in their war with the Chukchi as late as 1747)

    Aside from the First Opolchenie of 1611 and the Second Opolchenie of 1612 which are the proper names of armies just like the Black Army of Hungary, the word opolchenie simply stands for militia.

    The word opolchenie itself translates as "the assembly of arms against a threat" and shares subtle connotations with the old English word "moot" and the much later Minutemen from the early days of the US.
    Very interesting reply thanks. But in this documentary on youtube about the Romanov dynasty, theres a photo which I assume is from Nicholas II's reign, showing peasants wearing this around 34 minutes in.

    Last edited by Geronimo2006; December 22, 2018 at 12:07 PM.
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  10. #110

    Default Re: Sneak Peeks {WIP Screenshots}

    Quote Originally Posted by Geronimo2006 View Post
    Very interesting reply thanks. But in this documentary on youtube about the Romanov dynasty, theres a photo which I assume is from Nicholas II's reign, showing peasants wearing this around 34 minutes in.

    Might I ask for a screenshot? Between 00:34:00 and 00:36:00 there are a few shots by Sergey_Prokudin-Gorsky along with some much later photos, up into early 1930's.

    They feature very typical peasant clothing; some of the photos' colorization seems a bit cheesy to me, but the ones by Prokudin-Gorsky are not colorized but in fact are genuine color pictures taken using J. Maxwell's unique technique improved by Prokudin-Gorsky's own research.

    Here's an immense archive of his works; just pick a Russian province from the list on the left and click on the number (of the pictures taken in that province, apparently) to the right for Prokudin-Gorsky's own works or on the broken Unicode symbol in the next column for modern-day comparison shots.

    You'll also notice that he took loads of pictures in Western Europe and Russian Imperial provinces that are now independent countries (like Georgia, Finland, Central Asian republics, Baltic states, etc.)

    Or just do a google search for 'Prokudin-Gorsky peasant clothing'

    It's always plain overcoats and colorful baggy shirts; most likely cotton by the beginning of the XX century, but a peasant could only afford linen back in the XVII century.

    White overcoats with rich ornamentation look nothing but some sickly caricature to me; but it was totally expected for shirts.

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