The end of the Cuban Embargo?

[DarthShizNit]

Castro's fiendish life long plan of putting a sleeper cell in the White House are finally starting to pay if it would seem.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30516740

American officials have told US media the US is looking to open an embassy in Havana in the coming months.

The moves are part of a deal that saw the release of American Alan Gross by Cuba and includes the release of three Cubans jailed in Florida for spying. US President Barack Obama is making a statement later.

Mr Gross, 65, has spent five years behind bars after being accused of subversion, for trying to bring internet services to communities in Cuba.

He earlier left Cuba on a US government plane and was freed on humanitarian grounds.

His arrest and imprisonment had undermined attempts to thaw diplomatic relations between the two countries.

The three Cubans released in the US are part of the so-called Cuban Five convicted of spying.

Prosecutors said the five had sought to infiltrate US military bases and spied on Cuban exiles in Florida.

Two were recently allowed to return to Cuba after finishing their sentences.

Apparently the AP is reporting that the ban on Cuban Cigars will finally be over as well (well, at least up to $400).

Thoughts on the potential - or at least the start of - the end of our favorite embargo? Does this mean I can buy authentic Fidel fatigues now?

Updated info as of President Obama's speech:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/17/politi...html?hpt=hp_t1

Secretary of State John Kerry has been instructed to review Cuba's place on the State Sponsors of Terrorism list, potentially paving the the way a lift on certain economic and political sanctions.

...

Wednesday's announcement that the U.S. will move toward restoring diplomatic ties with Cuba will also make it easier for Americans to travel to Cuba and do business with the Cuban people by extending general licenses, officials said. While the more liberal travel restrictions won't allow for tourism, they will permit greater American travel to the island.

...

In an effort to boost the nascent Cuban private sector, the President will also allow expanded commercial sales and exports of goods and services to Cuba, particularly building materials for entrepreneurs and private residences, and allow greater business training, as well as permit greater communications hardware and services to go to the island.

Other announced changes permit U.S. and Cuban banks to build relationships and travelers to use credit and debit cards. U.S. travelers will be allowed to import up to $400 worth of goods from Cuba, including $100 in alcohol and tobacco -- even Cuban cigars. Remittances by Americans to their families back in Cuba will also be increased to approximately $2,000 per quarter.

[Claudius Gothicus]

*fingers crossed*

If the Obama administration pulls this off relations with South American parties, especially those left of center, will improve dramatically. That's only a good thing. Plus, Cubans have been ready for a shower of high-end, imported consumer products for a long time now. If there's one way to force the Castro's into a more open system that's raining the island with techy stuff and globalization and forcing them to deal with rapid social change.

[DarthShizNit]

*fingers crossed*

If the Obama administration pulls this off relations with South American parties, especially those left of center, will improve dramatically. That's only a good thing. Plus, Cubans have been ready for a shower of high-end, imported consumer products for a long time now. If there's one way to force the Castro's into a more open system that's raining the island with techy stuff and globalization and forcing them to deal with rapid social change.

Cuba has always needed a supporter, the CCCP during the Cold War, Venezuela since then. We should have stepped in during the 90's, but with the coming collapse of Venezuela, now's another chance to step in. If we trade with Saudia Arabia, I don't think we can possibly justify not trading with Cuba any more.

[Papay]

Well apparently the American government realized that the embargo does nothing more than strengthen the Cuban regime

[Sphere]

Well apparently the American government realized that the embargo does nothing more than strengthen the Cuban regime

I think it is more likely that the Obama administration looked at the recent polls of Cuban-Americans in Florida. They are the only ones for whom Cuba policy is a vote changing issue.

A sizable majority now favor steps towards a normalization of relations (79%). Perhaps not a full dismantling of the embargo, but at least allowing freedom of travel and some limited commerce.

Marco Rubio (a Florida republican and presidential hopeful) has already come out hard agaisnt the idea. It is likely good poltics for the democrats to offer a choice to Cuban-Americans in Florida of voting democrat and being able to visit the Motherland, or voting Republican and remaining estranged.

It dovetails with the executive orders altering immigration policy. I noticed the administration made a talking point out of saying the next president could reverse it. They wanted to make clear to Hispanic voters that if you choose Republican, someone you know or are related to might get deported.

I think it is all part of a larger political strategy to secure the Hispanic vote going into the future.

[Papay]

I think it is more likely that the Obama administration looked at the recent polls of Cuban-Americans in Florida. They are the only ones for whom Cuba policy is a vote changing issue.

A sizable majority now favor steps towards a normalization of relations (79%). Perhaps not a full dismantling of the embargo, but at least allowing freedom of travel and some limited commerce.

Marco Rubio (a Florida republican and presidential hopeful) has already come out hard agaisnt the idea. It is likely good poltics for the democrats to offer a choice to Cuban-Americans in Florida of voting democrat and being able to visit the Motherland, or voting Republican and remaining estranged.

It dovetails with the executive orders altering immigration policy. I noticed the administration made a talking point out of saying the next president could reverse it. They wanted to make clear to Hispanic voters that if you choose Republican, someone you know or are related to might get deported.

I think it is all part of a larger political strategy to secure the Hispanic vote going into the future.

It makes sense. Older Cubans that went to Miami were usually anti-communists. For younger Cubans, being anti-communist doesnt make sense

[conon394]

Obama seems to have decided his work with Republicans on comprise failed miserably in his first term and trying to do centrist did not help in the midterms so just go balls to wall liberal at the end to help the next Democratic candidate. Good policy anyway the embargo is utterly stupid. For a nation that is friends with the house of Saud and China and lots of other unsavory people that make Cuba look like teddy bears and voted Dick Cheney into office.

[Ludicus]

Good policy anyway the embargo is utterly stupid..

Right.The announcement was received with universal applause.
------------
Raul Castro,

This expression by President Barack Obama deserves the respect and recognition by all the people and I want to thank and recognize support from the Vatican and especially from Pope Francis for the improvement of relations between Cuba and the United States.

-----
Obama’s remarks

His Holiness Pope Francis issued a individual enchantment to me and to Cuba's President Raul Castro urging us to take care of Alan's scenario. And to deal with Cuba's fascination in the release of 3 Cuban agents who'd been jailed in the United States for in excess of 15 years.

... Cuba has sent hundreds of health care employees to Africa to battle Ebola. And I imagine that American and human health care workers ought to work facet by facet to halt the unfold of this deadly disease. Now the place we disagree, we will raise all those discrepancies straight. As we carry on to do on troubles related to democracy and human legal rights in Cuba. But I feel we can do more to help the Cuban people today and boost our values through engagements. Following all, these 50 a long time have proven that isolation has not labored. It truly is time for a new solution.

[DarthShizNit]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/17/politi...html?hpt=hp_t1

Secretary of State John Kerry has been instructed to review Cuba's place on the State Sponsors of Terrorism list, potentially paving the the way a lift on certain economic and political sanctions.

...

Wednesday's announcement that the U.S. will move toward restoring diplomatic ties with Cuba will also make it easier for Americans to travel to Cuba and do business with the Cuban people by extending general licenses, officials said. While the more liberal travel restrictions won't allow for tourism, they will permit greater American travel to the island.

...

In an effort to boost the nascent Cuban private sector, the President will also allow expanded commercial sales and exports of goods and services to Cuba, particularly building materials for entrepreneurs and private residences, and allow greater business training, as well as permit greater communications hardware and services to go to the island.

Other announced changes permit U.S. and Cuban banks to build relationships and travelers to use credit and debit cards. U.S. travelers will be allowed to import up to $400 worth of goods from Cuba, including $100 in alcohol and tobacco -- even Cuban cigars. Remittances by Americans to their families back in Cuba will also be increased to approximately $2,000 per quarter.

[Ludicus]

Well done, Obama
----
Obama's full speech,
Obama Speaks On Relations With Cuba, Release Of Alan ...

[Border Patrol]

Now all that remains is to make them a state. USA! USA! USA!

[Phier]

The Emperor has spoken.

You will note that the Cuban embargo was a congressional thing.

[conon394]

The Emperor has spoken.

You will note that the Cuban embargo was a congressional thing.

Umm no it was mostly executive order for most of its unlife. Congress did pass a law but there no reason Obama cannot act under the scope of that law to minimize it. "The Emperor has spoken" Quite a bit less than say uncle ronny did when he violated a strict law to not aid the Contras and violated another law to get covert money from Iran to do it... But hay conservative republican violation of the law is cool right?

[Phier]

Umm no it was mostly executive order for most of its unlife. Congress did pass a law but there no reason Obama cannot act under the scope of that law to minimize it. "The Emperor has spoken" Quite a bit less than say uncle ronny did when he violated a strict law to not aid the Contras and violated another law to get covert money from Iran to do it... But hay conservative republican violation of the law is cool right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...o_against_Cuba

It started with an executive order, it was then backed up by more than one act of congress. This likewise should go through congress, but can't have that now can we

So the Emperor has spoken again, much like immigration.

the embargo is still in place and requires an act of congress, Obama has only lessened it in some areas and is encouraging debate.

Now if that is true, and I only read this on CC tv being I was going my 5*5 squats at the time, then good. Lets see how this goes, Obama said in the past that the president can't act on immigration without congress too.

[snuggans]

The Emperor has spoken.

You will note that the Cuban embargo was a congressional thing.

the embargo is still in place and requires an act of congress, Obama has only lessened it in some areas and is encouraging debate.

Well apparently the American government realized that the embargo does nothing more than strengthen the Cuban regime

which is why there are now more than 2 million Cuban-Americans in the US (around 18% of the entire Cuban population) stimulating economies in Florida and New York, and this population also has certain better statistics than other hispanic groups, such as higher pecentage of college education and household income. there are also Cuban-americans in the US government and congress, some of whose parents or grandparents are exiles; i will apologize wholeheartedly for Ted Cruz though, Canada can claim him if they want to.

[mrmouth]

encouraging debate.

You must be new here. The polls favoring this have been on the books for long enough. There is no logical debate to be had with certain Congress Critters. They will fall on their sword of dumbass every single time.


I still don't trust Cuba's government and recent events show that we shouldn't. But if we are going to continue failed policies that punish civilians, I would also like a new heaping helping of the War on Drugs.

He's using the immigration issue as a wedging block in the 2016 election

And he was gifted that by the GOP who didn't want to act on reform in a time of shifting demographics that would require them to at least accept a new reality. They were given years to come to their senses and share the reward in reforming immigration with what was largely a Republican plan.

They got all the money they wanted to pretend to be able to secure the border. That was a precondition. They still couldn't act rationally.

Ironically, I think it will result in more policy of division.

There was only ever going to be division. Nothing has changed and the people who decided to give the Senate to the GOP, know it:

• More than three-quarters of Americans say the election won’t substantially change the nation’s direction;
• More say they have less confidence that elected leaders in Washington will start working together to solve problems;
• And Americans are split almost evenly between positive (41 percent) and negative (39 percent) reactions to Republicans controlling both the House and Senate next year.

[Admiral Piett]

And he was gifted that by the GOP who didn't want to act on reform in a time of shifting demographics that would require them to at least accept a new reality. They were given years to come to their senses and share the reward in reforming immigration with what was largely a Republican plan.

I don't buy into that. People like to point the finger at who is more inherently responsible for this or that, but the truth is the blame rests on all of them for refusing to work with each other. The President also takes explicit blame for it because it's his responsibility to work with the legislative body that he has and that the people voted for. They did not feel strongly enough about the issue to compromise on it, which has always been our government's tradition until the past two or three decades where compromise is seen as either inexpedient or weak. Obama, unlike Clinton, chose not to compromise with Congress and thus instead of at least having some good progress there was little to no progress, so his party paid for that by getting humiliated in the election. Inaction or half-assed action on a variety of issues cannot solely be blamed on Congress alone, especially to the ones the chief executive has the power to act on. Obama did not need to wait until his second term to suddenly come out hiding on his various positions and campaign promises to act on them. He chose to do that for the same reasons Congress is not acting, expediency. So obviously, even people that highly dislike the GOP (myself included), were not inclined to believe that the Democrats had any desire to act on their convictions unless it directly benefited their power. The big difference is we know the Republicans are douches, but they do not pretend they aren't, unlike the Democrats. So yeah, unless we decide to bring fundamental change to our election process to make it more inclusive and have more choices than just the two evil parties we are used to and forced to vote on who is 'less evil', no I do not think things are going to change either. In that respect I agree with you.

[mrmouth]

I don't buy into that. People like to point the finger at who is more inherently responsible for this or that, but the truth is the blame rests on all of them for refusing to work with each other.

You don't buy into history? We know that on the night of the inauguration balls, the GOP heavyweights were at a private dinner in order to dream up ideas and a strategy to submarine Obama's presidency and not work with Democrats. It is outlined in multiple books by GOP insiders. That this was less about opposition to liberal ideals and a was actually misguided strategy to save conservative ideals by burning the house down. It was sheer panic. It led to things like climate change becoming bad words in the House when just months before the House was acting in good faith to try and push through legislation to combat climate change.
The list goes on and on. It is depressing as .

Do Not Ask What Good We Do

The prologue to the book details how, on the night of Obama's inauguration, a group of around 15 Republican Representatives and Senators met in the Caucus Room, a "high-end D.C. establishment", to discuss methods to "win back political power" and to "put the brakes on Obama's legislative platform".^[3]Those attending the meeting included Eric Cantor, Jeb Hensarling, Pete Hoekstra, Dan Lungren, Kevin McCarthy, Paul Ryan, and Pete Sessions as the House Representatives and Tom Coburn, Bob Corker, Jim DeMint, John Ensign, and Jon Kyl from the Senate. Newt Gingrich and Frank Luntz, both "non-lawmakers," were also in attendance. Luntz was the organizer of the meeting.^[4][5]

Multiple suggestions were put forward on how to direct their focus, with Kyl suggesting the group go after "Timothy Geithner for failing to pay Social Security and Medicare taxes while at the International Monetary Fund". In the same vein, Gingrich pointed out that "Charlie Rangel had a similar tax problem." Draper quotes in his book the four points that were decided upon in the meeting.

The first was for Kyl to focus on Geithner, the second was to oppose any economic policies put forth by Obama, the third was to utilize attack ads against "vulnerable Democrats" on radio and television, and the fourth and final decision was to form a majority in the House in 2010 and the Senate and presidency in 2012.^[3]

As conservative politics are broken, even before the Tea Party, there was never any hope for this Congress to be anything but the most unproductive. And it is a matter of history as to how that started, when it started, and who bears the most blame.


The GOP is just showing its ass again on this issue. There is literally no logical excuse to be against this other than lining up in blind opposition to Obama and, common decency. This isn't about rewarding dictators. It is a long overdue policy change to stop punishing Cubans and letting money flow between both countries. That would have once been a good thing to a Conservative when there is no tangible drawback aside from the inevitable rise in the price of Cuban cigars.

Yet another issue that the GOP will willingly sweep under the rug for false and bankrupt ideological reasons, while nearly 80% of the people they represent want change.

[alhoon]

Let me give a briefer synopsis that the one in the OP
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30516740

"US President Barack Obama has hailed a "new chapter" in US relations with Cuba, announcing moves to normalise diplomatic and economic ties."
"Mr Obama said Washington's current approach was "outdated" and the changes were the "most significant" in US policy towards Cuba in 50 years. Cuban President Raul Castro said he welcomed the shift in a TV address."

"The plans set out also include:

• Reviewing the designation of Cuba as a state sponsor of terrorism
• Easing a travel ban for US citizens
• Easing financial restrictions
• Increasing telecommunications links
• Efforts to lift the 54-year-old trade embargo

"



I knew that Obama was awesome, but that much awesomeness has surprised me.

[Admiral Piett]

Let me give a briefer synopsis that the one in the OP
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-30516740

"US President Barack Obama has hailed a "new chapter" in US relations with Cuba, announcing moves to normalise diplomatic and economic ties."
"Mr Obama said Washington's current approach was "outdated" and the changes were the "most significant" in US policy towards Cuba in 50 years. Cuban President Raul Castro said he welcomed the shift in a TV address."

"The plans set out also include:

• Reviewing the designation of Cuba as a state sponsor of terrorism
• Easing a travel ban for US citizens
• Easing financial restrictions
• Increasing telecommunications links
• Efforts to lift the 54-year-old trade embargo

"



I knew that Obama was awesome, but that much awesomeness has surprised me.

This is one of the few things I could support the President on, but he's doing it for the wrong reasons as noted in this thread. He's using the immigration issue as a wedging block in the 2016 election and it is no surprise he announced this within weeks of his executive orders on the previous issue. Ironically, I think it will result in more policy of division. Most of the Hispanics that have been here for two generations trend towards conservative, reared from their traditional Catholic norms.