NEW Dwarf army (Idea/Proposal)

[maycles]

I´f seen the third part of the Hobbit movie, so I was searching for images and I have a couple ideas for the new dwar army.
By by the way this patch is asome, thanks leo.civil.uefs

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-FAQ-PLEASE%29


Que pasa mis negros?



dwarven warrios, clan warrios, miner etc:

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Maybe the elite unit :

Khazad guards

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Bodyguards UNit

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Axemen of erebor:

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Iron guards:

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Axemen, hammers, Dragonslayers, double axes. or another faction o dwarfs.

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Ram riders:

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Ballista:

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MORE IDEAS:

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[AdmiralThrawn]

Movie spoiler(ish):

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Was it just me, or did most of this get cut from the actual movie!?!

[Protestant Knight]

Yep most of that got cut from the film but I'm really looking forward to the hobbit the battle of the five armies extended edition there was a lot of other stuff cut out of the film as well

[Dutch-Balrog]

Yea... They cut out like an entire ending from after the battle to the point Bilbo and Gandalf head back to the Shire. I was so dissapointed to see the other main characters who are not Dwarves simply dissapear from the story.. Especially Dain since he's the one who becomes king.

[Sint]

Yeah you know just my opinion but: I hate the pig and goat riding dwarfs of Jackson with a passion,that really has no place in a LOTR mod.

Especially Dain since he's the one who becomes king.

They also changed his story from his amazing feat of slaying Azog in the battle of Azanulbizar at the age of 32 (Young for a dwarf)to what silly looking pig rider?

[Dutch-Balrog]

Yeah you know just my opnion but: I hate the pig and goat riding dwarfs of Jackson with a passion,that really has no place in a LOTR mod.



They also changed his story from his amazing feat of slaying Azog in the battle of Azanulbizar at the age of 32 (Young for a dwarf)to what silly looking pig rider?

Agreed 100%, it would be a sad thing to see those as a unit. Just for the sake of being competent, i hope those won't make it, for lore, and gameplay (Dwarves require Dale cavalry, which is a great gameplay feature).

[Leggy]

Didn't Dáin also use an axe, and not a hammer?

[Cakyper]

good idea!

[Total War Fan 123]

This is an amazing idea I wish someone would make this mod already. IT NEEDS TO BE DONE. These are all great designs and they would add so much to the gameplay and visual aesthetics of third age.

[Dutch-Balrog]

It's already being worked on.

[Ironfoot]

Is the project dead ?

[Arachir Galudirithon]

This isn't actually a project.

It is just a collection of inspirational pictures. The title is a little misleading. If you wish to see the closest to this we will get then head here:
El Bucle

[TanZHao]

Hi, you can do this.

[Ngugi]

Hi, you can do this.

This isn't actually a project.

It is just a collection of inspirational pictures. The title is a little misleading. If you wish to see the closest to this we will get then head here:
El Bucle

[Johnny12]

Imo someone should have made the Goats unit, just for the sake of movie fans, after all lore is not that sacred, even Tolkien wouldn't be that much of a fanatic for keeping the lore in a game in which what truly matters is the battle. I don't understand the fight the ram riders have received, to me that is a minor lore change that made the battle look awesome. Though whenever I say so I get bashed. I will still insist, though, that the goats SHOULD be in a mod at some day, and to heck with the lore restrictions, because in that case even Greek mythology has been incredibly changed to a ridiculous level by Hollywood, and everyone is fine with it, but one minor change in dwarven lore and everyone loses their minds? Geez.

[Arachir Galudirithon]

It is not just the lore. It is gameplay. In every single submod and the base game, the Dwarves are absolute tanks. They have high armour and have the most formidable heavy infantry going. 1-on-1 they can pretty much go toe to toe with every other unit of their respective tiers and often come out on top. They have high morale as well so they are tricky to defeat. Essentially, the Dwarves are one of the most OP races in the various submods and mods. So how on earth do you make a faction like that have a weakness? You take away all cavalry. The Dwarves have a very hard time dealing with archers and skirmishers and that is their key weakness. An exploit that anybody fighting against them always uses. Bring your javelins. Now if the Dwarves got the goat cavalry that you so desperately crave, then they would have no weaknesses and would become a very boring campaign. I for one do not subscribe to the idea that if a human finds a game to easy then they should just not use certain features. I think you should find the game challenging even with everything at your disposal.

That is my key argument against goat cavalry but also because there is not a goat alive that could carry a dwarf. Tolkien doesn't tell us of a half-goat half-horse monster breed that the dwarves have been keeping to themselves. If the stunted folk ever did get cavalry, they would be pony riders. Goat Cavalry are the realms of Warhammer-esque fantasy. Now if the community were arguing for pony riders, they would not be shut down so quickly and with such vehemence.

[Vifarc]

1-on-1 they can pretty much go toe to toe with every other unit of their respective tiers and often come out on top. They have high morale as well so they are tricky to defeat. Essentially, the Dwarves are one of the most OP races in the various submods and mods. So how on earth do you make a faction like that have a weakness? You take away all cavalry.
That is my key argument against goat cavalry

But some could so tell that Elves have no weakness, for they have even better heavy infantry, archers (the best ones), and some excellent cavalry.
Other could answer they are very expensive, but it is not their true weakness: Elves are rarer, with very low replenish rates.
Often in my Silvan/Lorien campaigns, I believe I have so few elves for they are too expensive. But in the end of campaigns when I'm at last rich enough to have a true army (I mean, respectivly to the size of my 'kingdom'), it feels money was not the problem, because in the very end I have some too much money for I have few elves soldiers to expend it...

I think this is really not the problem of the dwarves, who can have numerous armies if they have the wealth, so players say they have the easier campaigns (even if country side battles can be though running at stinguy coward goblins lol).

[Ngugi]

^ Splendidly put.

While, for those who do want it, the unit already exist and has existed for a long time (even if leo' himself don't want to touch them with pliers these days, hehe): http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...1#post14979322

[AWPscrape]

IMO, there is another problem with it. Let's look at it from start. As they are dwarves, they would have a heavy armor, so they would be actually hard to take out. Then, if you take into account, that ram charging into you is far worse, then horse charging, they would have to have a very high charge damage. And with dwarven morale, they just wouldn't brake. What that means? If you want to be reasonable and don't just pure nerf unit, because it is too strong, they would be one of the strongest cavalry and they would certainly be stronger then Wargs... And that just doesn't make sense. I agree with Arachir and Ngugi, that it is just wrong from both lore or gameplay aspect...

[Karak Norn Clansman]

Weta Workshop did some neat work on Dwarven armour and equipment. I personally prefer the more traditional take seen in Games Workshop's own Lotr range, and the more creative Gimli gear, but there's no denying the Hobbit Dwarves carry some quite good Dwarven armour.

As for goat riders, anyone who wants to make them in an optional sub-submod is welcome to it for those who liked that feature in the movie, so long as it never became standard feature in the main submods. I wouldn't like seeing them show up in a main Lotr mod. It would make for an unwelcome surprise. Crossbows, ballistas and plate armour are fine little liberties suitable for Tolkien's Middle-Earth since these pieces of technology isn't far out from the literal vision of the fantasy world, but introducing Nydus worms and new mount breeds for Dwarves is much too far. For the same reason that Tolkien's steel dragon APCs in the Siege of Gondolin are entirely out of place and breaks with the overall vision drastically. The rams are very charming in Warcraft and certainly have a home there, though.

To understand the vitriol for much of the liberties in the Hobbit movies (all of them weren't bad, some of the subtler narrative ones even improved/underlined the core story such as the gold statue bringing the maddening Dwarf king's greed to the fore - although having it as an anti-dragon weapon wasn't particularly clever), consider that this is the movies for Lotr and the Hobbit, the only ones with big budget and much effort invested in them we're likely to see for a long time, possible the only ones in several lifetimes if some director and company wouldn't be itching for a recast. These are the movies of Tolkien's currently IP-available stories, and parts of them were squandered. There was no Dol Amroth, and neither were there at Pelennor a mustering of the fiefdoms of Gondor or a diverse host of Sauron drawn from a multitude of Mannish peoples aside from Orcs and Trolls (Mûmakils and split-second glimpses of Easterlings don't pull the whole load by themselves). The problems mount up much more in the Hobbit movies, and now people who want to see a film of the Hobbit will have to endure Nydus worms and Dwarven boar riders.

Dwarves shall be absolute tanks and killer infantry, and their lack of cavalry is indeed a good weakness. GW played that same route throughout all of Warhammer Fantasy (with the old Gyrocopter as the sole but vulnerable exception), and didn't even give the Dwarves bear cavalry, rams or rune golems during the high fantasy slope of 8th edition, which saw Demigryphs for Empire and so on. The slow and tough infantry block army model works well for Lotr Dwarves, too.

That said, I am genuinely curious as to how JRR Tolkien would have received the idea of Dwarven ram riders whilst fleshing out Arda. This is the highly imaginative man who invented Orcish Wolf cavalry, after all, and you have to hand it to Blizzard that their giant mountain ram mounts click surprisingly well with fantasy Dwarfs. Even for a Dwarf-on-foot hardliner like me who normally draws the line at ponies and then only as drafts animals if possible (the pony riding in the Hobbit book is borderline beard heresy ). We can never know, and Lotr is obviously a finished setting best handed with some care and respect and with less liberties than open fantasy settings, but I wouldn't have been half surprised if the good professor would have incorporated the idea, even if something akin to relatively slow ram mounts and pack animals suited for mountainous terrain wouldn't necessarily lead to actual cavalry usage.